Dana, Would you please site for me the statute and implementing regulation that give the US corporation, through its enforcement arm, the EPA, the authority to site a resident of one of the 50 states for "failing to comply with the regulations". I get the idea from your comment that, you believe, the US had authority to regulate a state citizen. To the best of my knowledge and through intense study the EPA has no authority to function in any jurisdiction but the US, unless invited in by invitation by the state citizen on a voluntary basis. Thanks for your help.
Steven-Lee ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dana Linscott" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <biofuel@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 2:02 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: EPA?/consider the alternative > You are under the impression that "innocent until > proven guilty" applies anywhere other than a court of > law. It does not. > > If the producer insists on producing and selling > "biodiesel" wihtout complying to the regulations > regarding fuel production despite the wEPA warning I > suspect he will be charged with failing to comply with > the regulations...not making bad biodiesel. > > By the way who are the "big boys" and why do you think > they care about homebrew biodiesel as competition? > > Do you feel that there should be no standards applied > to biodiesel manufacture? > > Dana > --- Greg and April <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Dana Linscott" <> > > Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 09:19 > > Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: EPA?/consider the > > alternative > > > > > > > *I have problem with that analogy as well. A > > turnip is > > > at least recognizable as a turnip...and usually > > > organics can be recognized because they tend not > > to be > > > the picture perfect produce that normally on the > > > shelves. > > > > How then does a one tell an organic egg from a non > > organic egg other than > > the what is said on the package? > > > > You can't, because once the organic egg has been > > laid, it can be subjected > > to the same treatment as a non-organic egg, and > > still be called organic. > > > > > > >Biodiesel on the other hand can be nearly > > > anything including stuff that is bad for engines > > and > > > causes air pollution. And since it is much easier > > and > > > cheaper to make biodiesel that is "dirty" there is > > an > > > incentive to cut corners and do so. Not all small > > > producers are saints or even knowledgeable about > > what > > > it takes to produce good clean biodiesel. To > > simply > > > take for granted that no small producer would > > > knowingly or unknowingly produce an inferior > > product > > > is naive. I don't know of any industry that does > > not > > > have to pay for its' own testing and I certainly > > don't > > > want the govt. providing them. The cost would be > > too > > > high and the quality too low. The govt. represents > > the > > > people (we are the idiots that elect them) and > > spends > > > their money and to burden the people with > > providing > > > free or low cost testing for COMMERCIAL production > > of > > > biodiesel would be unprecedented. Testing and > > proving > > > that the regulated product you wish to sell is not > > > dangerous is the responsibility of the > > > PRODUCER/SELLER...not the taxpayer. > > > > That is why the "big boys" can and do set the > > standards so high, to kill the > > compatition with testing cost. > > > > > ----------------------------------------- > > > *Unless it is tested and complies to some standard > > NO, > > > that is not what we are talking about. > > > > Wrong. Don't forget the phase "Inocent until proven > > guilty", your going to > > hear that alot. > > > > >We are talking > > > about an unknown ester which may or may not > > contain > > > other substances and may or may not be less toxic > > than > > > salt, more biodegradable...etc. > > > --------------------------------------- > > > > No we are not, we are talking about BioDiesel until > > someone else proves he > > is not producing biodiesel. > > > > > *A bit paranoid here aren't you.Central control? > > > The EPA WARNED him...They did not NUKE him. > > > ------------- > > > > Just like a bank robber that sticks a gun in your > > face, and warns you. > > > > > ----------- > > > *There are standards. The results of home > > biodiesel > > > production are highly variable. > > > -------------- > > > > So is the comercial production of gasoline and > > dinodiesel. > > > > > ------------- > > > *I agree. No one should be prohibited from making > > and > > > using their own biofuel. Selling it is an entirely > > > different matter. > > > -------------- > > > > Wrong. > > > > > -------------- > > > *Biodiesel can be a variety of things. What > > prevents > > > folks from mixing up wvo and diesel fuel and > > selling > > > it as "biodiesel"? > > > -------------- > > > > Then it is no longer biodiesel is it. Then if that > > is the case, it then > > becomes fraud, and he is consitered inocent until > > proven guilty, not guilty > > until he proves himself inocent in this case. > > > > > --------- > > > *He cannot expect anyone to accept that what he > > > alleges is biodiesel that is identical to that of > > NBB > > > members without submitting to the same standards > > of > > > testing that they do. His product could be > > anything.I > > > tend to believe that it is probably good clean > > > biodiesel. > > > > How do you know it isn't? > > > > But if I were a EPA regulator I would be > > > remiss in my duty if I did not require proof of > > his > > > allegations. No law requires him to be a member. > > The > > > law does require him to prove up his claim tough. > > > > Wrong, the law states that the burden of proof > > belongs to the EPA regulator. > > > > > Without proving that he cannot use data > > established > > > for what may in fact be some other product. Taking > > his > > > word for it is not an option...legally. > > > -------------- > > > > Yes it is. > > > > > ---------------- > > > *I don't think I am. The producer wants to sell a > > > product which he alleges is biodiesel that > > conforms to > > > standards which he has not proven are applicable > > to it > > > and expects a govt. regulator to accept his word > > in > > > lieu or any scientific evidence. > > > ---------------- > > > > If a product that meets a standard, uses a given > > process, and someone else > > uses the same process, then the burden of proof that > > the product does not > > meet standards, belongs to the govt. regulator, > > remember, in the USA you are > > inocent until proven guilty, and the burden of proof > > belongs to the govt. > > The EPA broke the law. > > > > > > > ----------------- > > > *Data is only applicable to identical substances. > > All > > > he needs to do is prove his product is identical. > > > --------------------- > > > > As is a given process, and all that he has to show, > > is that the process is > > the same. > > > > > -------------- > > > *He is unfortunately a victim of his own lack of > > > research/business acumen but he is not a victim of > > the > > > EPA. > > > > The EPA pronounced him guilty, without proving that > > his product is not what > > he said it was. > > > > I am defending the EPA only because I have yet to > > > see that they have done anything other than > > equally > > > === message truncated === > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! 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