Keith, If I were a small biodiesel producer I would like to have the opportunity to "collaborate" with the NBB even if I could not afford to join. I imagine I would gain far more than they would from the arrangement. I also imagine that they monitor this site to some degree and the "rather fight then join" attitude often displayed on it probably does not make them MORE inclined to take many "backyard producers" that post on this list seriously. There are the exceptions...many of them...but all it takes is one to "sour" the batch.
Unfortunately I don't see you advocating businesslike moderation often lately. On the other hand Ed HAS suggested a businesslike attitude of moderation be adopted. This is not surprising as he is in fact a businessman and as such has learned what must be done to successfully run a business. I don't believe he has compromised his morals to do so nor did he suddenly become evil...not that you said he had. He has thoughtfully researched the available information, formed an informed opinion, and shared that opinion. I for one do not think it would be a very interesting exercise "to take it all apart and look carefully at all the subsidies and farm bills and so on and figure just what proportion of that funding, and therefore of biodiesel research sponsorship and promotion costs, are in fact paid for by the taxpayer. " I am glad that some organization exists that has provided some tools for prospective bidiesel producers to use to go into production and promote the use of biodiesel in the US. It beats the alternative by a mile. As far as the bit about fuel consitency...that has pretty much been MY point...which seem so loath to accept and yet is so basic. Without a guarrentee of consistently high quality biodiesel the engine manufaturers won't accept biodiesel as a legitimate and safe alternative to petrodiesel and until they do neither will the american public. If the NBB is interested in a collaboration with small businesspersons that want to produce commercial biodiesel of a quality consistent with NBB standards using processes and techniques that are also NBB approved I hope they will contact me as I am more than willing to provide a unmoderated forum...by invitation only..composed exclusively of those business folk that are seriously interested in doing so. Please contact me at; [EMAIL PROTECTED] and I will set up the web site ASAP. Also any folks that fit the above description please contact me if you are interested in such a collaboration. Dana --- Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Ed Beggs wrote: > > <snip> > > >So, since the market for biodiesel has largely been > created in the USA by > >the lobbying efforts of the NBB and the research > they have sponsored, and > >since sales of biodiesel have, in fact, been > greatly enhanced by the EPA's > >acceptance of that research so that biodiesel can > be used in fleets, > > "Largely", and only "largely", and I'd say that even > if it were > "entirely", they don't *own* it - there's still be > plenty of > elbow-room for small-scale, local operations to > function as they > will, and if not, then that has to be fixed right > quick. > > Who funds the NBB? Soybean money mostly, or > entirely? It would be > interesting, don't you think, to take it all apart > and look carefully > at all the subsidies and farm bills and so on and > figure just what > proportion of that funding, and therefore of > biodiesel research > sponsorship and promotion costs, are in fact paid > for by the > taxpayer. And should therefore be accessible to the > taxpayer. > Including the small-scale local biodiesel producer, > whether a fully > paid-up member of the NBB's club or not. > > This is what a former senior NBB exec said about a > market sector not > created by the NBB or the "industry" (personal > communication relayed > to me): > > "Proponents of 'make-it-yourself' fuel are not > looked > upon as serious because there is no way to ensure > consistent fuel quality. Of > course, these groups can be very helpful when > approaching government to > demonstrate community-wide support." > > We can take the bit about consistent fuel quality > with a pinch of, > um, vinegar. It's the second bit that counts more. > They're good at > lobbying, but they're not too good at publicising > and popularising, > and they admit that we're much better at that. > Whereas, we're not too > good at lobbying. > > This is from a top-level PR agency, consultant to a > major biod > producer (personal communication to me): > > "We are extremely eager to get involved in the > grassroots movement > for biofuels... I would be highly interested in > discussing further a > collaborative effort to pressure the ultimate > decision makers from > the flanks. > > "Our production and distribution capabilities, > coupled with this > groundswell of public support, could actually > generate, finally, mass > biofuel use. > > "... there is a core of people out there who have > made it their > personal mission to advance biodiesel and other > renewable, low > emissions fuels. Most of our customers do not fit > this mold as they > are using it for business reasons and only care > about biodiesel > insofar as it meets their needs. > > "While we have the supply, we can only go as far as > demand will take > us. We believe that a grassroots effort will > generate this needed > demand." > > And so on. So all the lobbying's well and good, but > it fails to > create a demand, and it'd be real nice if we did > that bit for them, > in a "collaborative effort"... Which, when it comes > down to it, turns > out to mean this: "Thanks, children, we appreciate > it, no go out and > play." > > Well, sod that. Let them do their little thing, and > we'll do ours. > They'll benefit from our publicising, and we'll take > the benefit of > their lobbying. Okay? > > Ed, by the way, I've got nothing against the NBB, > sure they're > helpful, as you say, and their database and > information services are > great. I've worked with them on a few things, no > problem. Certainly > we should work with them. > > But what's very noticeable in the full > communications that I've > quoted from above, and elsewhere, is that they and > their ilk think we > should be subordinated for our usefulness, and > that's it - we're not > to be taken seriously. That is NOT the basis of > collaboration. It's > the basis of serfdom. It's not them in particular, > it's the typical > attitude of industry to small-scale independents. > > As I said, sod that. > > <snip> > > >So, want to sell commercial biodiesel in the USA? > Provide the data. Can't > >afford it? Get the NBB's blessing, in other words > join and comply with their > >requirements for membership, and use theirs. > > > >Too onerous for the small producer? > > > > > >Well, as I said before, talk to them about it. > > Certainly, yes. But be aware of what I've said > above, and stand your > ground, don't defer, don't be patronised or > sidelined. > > >If you are not getting > >anywhere, remind them that a lot of small > businessmen - farmers - fund them. > >If that doesn't work, and no reasonable provision > can be made to allow small > >producers to get a start, go to the farmers > organizations that fund the NBB, > >and talk to them. > > > >There ought to be provision for BONA FIDE small > producers, as I indicated > >earlier. That's in the spirit of sustainability. > > > >Whether a small business, or a small farmer's > co-op, local and regional > >small scale production ought to be part of the > biodiesel world in the US, if > >those enterprises can compete economically or on > the basis of service or > >what have you. > > > >If it is truly the case that the costs are too high > for these enterprises to > >get their fuel properly registered, then that is > what needs to be addressed, > >and working through the NBB and its funders seems > the best option to get > >that established. > > If you can get them to focus on it and to respond. > And if not, well, > too bad, we tried, give up? No, that's just a first > option. If not, > we proceed in other directions and bypass them. "No" > is not an > acceptable answer. > > Keith Addison > Journey to Forever > Handmade Projects > Osaka, Japan > http://journeytoforever.org/ > > > <snip> > > >Edward Beggs > >per Neoteric Biofuels Inc. > >www.biofuels.ca > === message truncated === __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
