Steve,
By the way democracy comes from the Greek word demos = population, people and kratein = rule An other tip, Democracy (demokratein = people rule) was a new way of ruling Athen, after the victory over the Persians 480 BC. Already then, both direct and indirect (proxy by representative) was practiced. If you start from there in the search engines, you might get somewhere. Otherwise, god help us, you have to start to read something called books. It will be faster if you go directly to history books and start around 500 BC. Hakan At 11:13 PM 4/12/2003 +0200, you wrote: >Steve, > >You are jumping about 2,000 years in the history >of democracy, at least with the links that you are >referring to. None of those links are definitions of >democracy, they are applications of democracy. > >During 2,200 years democracy have trying to >find the balance between direct democracy and >representative democracy. You have to do better >than this, if you want to tell me the definitions and >who is deciding what is democracy or not. > >Hakan > > >At 04:40 PM 4/12/2003 -0400, you wrote: > >http://www.sispain.org/english/history/monarchy.html > > > >http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutional_monarchy > > > >http://www.jura.uni-sb.de/law/GG/gg0.htm > > > >http://www.elysee.fr/ang/index.shtm > > > >http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0108012.html > > > >you can use a search engine too. This is basic knowledge. > > > >Steve Spence > >Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter > >& Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: > >http://www.green-trust.org > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Hakan Falk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: <biofuel@yahoogroups.com> > >Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2003 4:21 PM > >Subject: Re: [biofuel] Bringing democracy to Sweden > > > > > > > > > > Definitions by whom, what circumstances and when? > > > > > > Hakan > > > > > > > > > At 03:19 PM 4/12/2003 -0400, you wrote: > > > >not pure democracy, by definition. pure democracy is almost as bad as > > > >anarchy. you asked, I gave. disagree if you wish, but these are the > >accepted > > > >definitions. > > > > > > > >Steve Spence > > > >Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter > > > >& Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: > > > >http://www.green-trust.org > > > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > >From: "Hakan Falk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > >To: <biofuel@yahoogroups.com> > > > >Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2003 3:05 PM > > > >Subject: Re: [biofuel] Bringing democracy to Sweden > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and none of them are democracies? > > > > > > > > > > Hakan > > > > > > > > > > At 02:47 PM 4/12/2003 -0400, you wrote: > > > > > >officially? > > > > > > > > > > > >Steve Spence > > > > > >Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter > > > > > >& Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: > > > > > >http://www.green-trust.org > > > > > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > > > >From: "Hakan Falk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > >To: <biofuel@yahoogroups.com> > > > > > >Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2003 2:21 PM > > > > > >Subject: Re: [biofuel] Bringing democracy to Sweden > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What is UK then? - constitutional monarchy > > > > > > > What is Canada then? - confederation with parliamentary democracy > > > > > > > What is Australia then? - democratic, federal-state system > >recognizing > > > >the > > > > > >British monarch as sovereign > > > > > > > What is Spain then? - parliamentary monarchy > > > > > > > What is Sweden then? - constitutional monarchy > > > > > > > What is France then? - republic > > > > > > > What is Germany then? - federal republic > > > > > > > What is Switzerland then? - federal republic > > > > > > > > > > > >and the USA - federal republic; strong democratic tradition > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am very interested in your definitions of above countries. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hakan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At 02:00 PM 4/12/2003 -0400, you wrote: > > > > > > > >A democracy is mob rule. A republic is democracy with a > >constitution > > > >that > > > > > > > >specifies what limits the mob has. our 3 way system of > government > >is > > > >set > > > > > >up > > > > > > > >with checks and balances that prevent any one group from over > >ruling > > > >the > > > > > > > >rights of others. It's quite simple in a complex way. It works > >for > > > >us. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Steve Spence > > > > > > > >Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter > > > > > > > >& Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: > > > > > > > >http://www.green-trust.org > > > > > > > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > >From: "Hakan Falk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > > >To: <biofuel@yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > >Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2003 1:23 PM > > > > > > > >Subject: Re: [biofuel] Bringing democracy to Sweden > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My logic is not broken, but you are one of the few that I > >heard, > > > >that > > > > > > > > > claims that US is not a democracy. In fact, you are claiming > >that > > > > > > > > > democracy does not exist. Because if democracy is > connected to > > > > > > > > > if it is Republic or the opposite a Kingdom like UK, I am > >afraid > > > >that > > > > > > > > > if it does not exist in a republic, it for sure does not > exist > >in > > > >a > > > > > > > >Kingdom. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding possibilities for Bush to suspend elections, I am > >not as > > > > > > > > > sure as you. Bush, like Hitler, was given some extraordinary > > > >powers > > > > > > > > > after 9/11 and the fire in Reichtaghaus. Anyway, I think and > >hope > > > >that > > > > > > > > > you are right when it comes to Bush. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I still think that you are muddling up this about democracy > >and > > > > > > > > > by talking about a Republic not being a democracy, only > >reinforces > > > > > > > > > my feeling. On the other hand, you are not alone, because Jeb > >Bush > > > > > > > > > called Spain a Republic when he visited here, To the > amusement > >of > > > > > > > > > all journalists, talk shows and comedians here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hakan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At 12:10 PM 4/12/2003 -0400, you wrote: > > > > > > > > > >You are confused. The US is not a democracy, it's a > republic. > > > >It's a > > > > > > > >common > > > > > > > > > >mistake, and many of our own officials slip up. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >BTW, where did I give a definition of democracy in the below > >post > > > >? I > > > > > >was > > > > > > > > > >discussing Sweden's version of socialism. George Bush, > unlike > > > >Hitler, > > > > > > > >could > > > > > > > > > >not abolish elections. He's not able to in our system. "By > >the > > > > > >people" > > > > > > > >never > > > > > > > > > >disappeared. It still is and will continue to be so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Your "logic" is broken. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Steve Spence > > > > > > > > > >Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter > > > > > > > > > >& Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: > > > > > > > > > >http://www.green-trust.org > > > > > > > > > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > >From: "Hakan Falk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > > > > >To: <biofuel@yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > >Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2003 11:57 AM > > > > > > > > > >Subject: Re: [biofuel] Bringing democracy to Sweden > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Steve, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We discussed democracy, not party politics. I cannot > > > > > > > > > > > understand how you can confuse this issues. According > > > > > > > > > > > to your definition, US is a lesser democracy when the > > > > > > > > > > > democrats have the presidency like Jack Kennedy, > > > > > > > > > > > Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton etc. and more democracy with > > > > > > > > > > > the republicans Richard Nixon, Ronald Reagan, senior > > > > > > > > > > > and junior Bush. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have heard a lot of definitions on democracy, but I > >think > > > > > > > > > > > that this is the funniest one. So if George W. Bush, like > > > > > > > > > > > Hitler, manage to abolish new elections, US would > still be > > > > > > > > > > > the greatest democracy on earth, because the politics > that > > > > > > > > > > > George W. Bush represent. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Where did "by the people for the people" disappear? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hakan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At 11:12 AM 4/12/2003 -0400, you wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >socialism is used in this context as a country that > takes > > > >from > > > > > >all to > > > > > > > > > > > >support all, instead of people doing for themselves. > I do > >not > > > > > >need or > > > > > > > > > >want > > > > > > > > > > > >the government taking care of me (and charging me a > >princely > > > >sum > > > > > >for > > > > > > > > > >doing > > > > > > > > > > > >do) I'm better able to do it myself, for less. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Steve Spence > > > > > > > > > > > >Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter > > > > > > > > > > > >& Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable Technology: > > > > > > > > > > > >http://www.green-trust.org > > > > > > > > > > > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > > > >From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > > > > > > >To: <biofuel@yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > >Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 5:44 PM > > > > > > > > > > > >Subject: Re: [biofuel] Bringing democracy to Sweden > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I would not consider a socialist country like Sweden > >to > > > >be > > > > > > > >superior > > > > > > > > > >to > > > > > > > > > > > >the > > > > > > > > > > > > > >USA. Swede's may not concur. Americans I know who > >have > > > >moved > > > > > > > >there, > > > > > > > > > >and > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Swedes that have moved here, both say that each has > >it's > > > > > >moments. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Aarghhh! You said the S-word! We'll all be > murdered in > >our > > > > > >beds!! > > > > > > > >LOL! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Keith > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Steve Spence > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter > > > > > > > > > > > > > >& Discussion Boards. Read about Sustainable > >Technology: > > > > > > > > > > > > > >http://www.green-trust.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: "Hakan Falk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >To: <biofuel@yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 3:20 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Subject: Re: [biofuel] Bringing democracy to Sweden > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > MH, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I expected to hear from you, after reading the > >links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I gave you, especially if you looked at this > >document, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >http://hdr.undp.org/reports/global/2002/en/pdf/backone.pdf > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Human developing index > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you go through it, you will find that the > >"Swedish > > > > > > > >democracy" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is superior than the "American democracy" on some > > > >minor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > issues as social security, human rights, children > > > >labor, > > > > > > > > > >corruption, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > equality between sexes, education, wealth gap, > >etc. > > > >That > > > > > >is > > > > > > > >why > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think it is more difficult to impose "American > > > > > >democracy" in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sweden than in Iraq, contrary to the US > >administration > > > > > > > >perception. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But who knows, military superiority can change > >most > > > >things > > > > > >and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > we cannot have something that is better than the > > > >American > > > > > >can > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > we? I guess that Sweden must be liberated also. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hakan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At 10:46 PM 4/10/2003 +0200, you wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >MH, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >http://www.transparency.org/cpi/2002/cpi2002.en.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Sorry, 2001 list the Netherlands was on shared 5 > >with > > > > > >Sweden, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >now it is Singapore. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >http://hdr.undp.org/reports/global/2002/en/pdf/backone.pdf > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Human developing index > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >http://hdr.undp.org/reports/default.cfm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Human development reports. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Hakan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >At 02:49 PM 4/10/2003 -0500, you wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I had a moment filled with laugh and anger > >when > > > >I > > > > > >looked > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at an CNN interview with a high ranking US > > > >official. > > > > > > > >This > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > enlightened idiot said "it is one thing to > >bring > > > > > > > >democracy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to a country like Sweden, but more > difficult > >to > > > >a > > > > > > > >country > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > like Iraq". As democracy Sweden is known as > >one > > > >of > > > > > >the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > oldest and best in the world and is in the > >fifth > > > > > >place, > > > > > > > > > >together > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > with the Netherlands, of least corrupted > > > >countries > > > > > >in > > > > > > > >the > > > > > > > > > >world. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > US is in 16th place, far closer to Nigeria > >who > > > >is > > > > > >the > > > > > > > >worst. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hakan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hey Hakan where do I found this ranking > >report ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Details, details more details please. 8^} > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > > > > > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Biofuels list archives: > > > > > > > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > > > > > > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > > > > >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > > > > > > > > >Biofuels list archives: > > > > > >http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > > > > > > > > > > >Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > > > > > >To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > > > > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > > > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > > > > > > > Biofuels list archives: > > > > > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > > > > > > > > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > > > > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > > >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > > > > >Biofuels list archives: > > > >http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > > > > > > >Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > > > >To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > > > Biofuels list archives: > > > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > > > > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > >Biofuels list archives: > >http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > > >Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > >To unsubscribe, send an email to: > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > >Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > >Biofuels list archives: >http://archive.nnytech.net/ > >Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. >To unsubscribe, send an email to: >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars for Trying! http://us.click.yahoo.com/yMx78A/fNtFAA/i5gGAA/FGYolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
