Dok, Why wouldn't you make the same observation relative to subsidies of fossil fuels as you do ethanol? Do you believe that renewable fuels such as wind and solar would still be at the same reduced market share if enormous fossil and nuclear subsidies hadn't forced them into niche markets for decades rather than mainstream?
Nuclear power would never have existed and still wouldn't in anything but academic/research form (and perhaps not even then) if subsidies had never been introduced. And why wouldn't you be "swayed" by the inclusion of co-products such as brewer's grains in the complete economic equation? Perhaps the ethanol industry should let the post production brewer's grains or pre-production oils, waxes and other useful components go to waste, shipping them directly to the landfill and letting all those direct and invested btus go to waste, simply because these components aren't the same chemical and physical structure as ethanol? Certainly the fossil fuel companies include their co-products in their equations - coal and oil tars for example, once nothing more than toxic and capital consuming waste products. It's quite fashionable in contemporary industrialism to market waste products as commodities, everything from emissions credits to toxic waste clearing houses where one company's waste is implemented as another company's feedstock. All the while the credits and debits are made by the bean counters in back rooms to enhance the end of year stockholder's report. Why shouldn't the same rules apply to the ethanol industry from a btus in vs. btus out perspective? Todd Swearingen ----- Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <biofuel@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 11:03 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Cellulose-Alcohol story. > I don't see how ethanol production from corn is energetically favorable. A > mass and energy balance invariably is deficient. It is only by government > subsidies that the concept remains alive. I am not swayed by creative balance > sheets that include credits for cattle feed, etc. We all had been hoping for > development of a bacteria that could produce EtOH in better yield than yeast. So > far, I don't know that this has happened. In any event, hydrolysis of the > cellulose to sugar would be a necessary first step. > > What might be feasible is a concept I developed years ago (and got a little > backing). I wanted to use geothermal energy in the Imperial Valley > (California) to distill EtOH produced by fermentation of sugar beets. Sugar beets grow > well in the valley and no "superbugs" would be needed to increase the yield of > alcohol. The geothermal energy wouldn't be free, since an infrastructure > would be needed to obtain it, but it would be far less costly than using a fossil > fuel. > > -- Jay L. Stern > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Ink Cartridges or Refill Kits for your HP, Epson, Canon or Lexmark Printer at MyInks.com. Free s/h on orders $50 or more to the US & Canada. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5511 http://us.click.yahoo.com/mOAaAA/3exGAA/qnsNAA/FGYolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
