Larry,
> I must agressively disagree with your perception. As someone who
> has been there gone through the enlistment process and served for 21
> years. I know what goes on inside.
That's a ratio of understanding approaching what, Larry? 1 to
???,???,????. One good experience does not an all encompassing truth make.
It is interesting the much of the activism against
the Military is located at "Institutions of Higher
Learning" were discourse and discussion is
supposted to be applauded, but the military which
defends those rights are not allowed to have free
expression
It's equally interesting that one finds ROTC offices at the same institutions. And
there's a bit of a disconnect with the rest. It's not the military which defends the
rights afforded by a constitution - it's Americans (and "on the cusp"
Americans). You make it sound as if the two are completely separate. And hey, in this
supposedly free society, there's virtually nothing preventing ROTC recruits or recruiters
from expressing themselves and protesting whatever they wish. Free and unmitigated
deception on the other hand? That's all together another matter.
> I am sure that every job/position/employment you accepted was "void
> of manipulation". The only difference would be that you could simply
> leave.
I was speaking of the manipulation of potential recruits being
symptomatic and in many ways mirroring the deceptive practices of the
administration. (Let's forget for the moment that the military is an
enforcement arm of an administration's policies. And in case you're not
familiar with the tactics of oppostion/war, if addressing "the brain"
doesn't work, then any apendage of Frankenstein's monster is fair game.)
To enter military service and then say, I dont
want to go there! or I don't want to do that!
is simply childish selfcenterdness (sp).
That was neither said or implied on this person's part. Buy your're certainly implying that it was and throwing it out as a new strawman.
but protesting a member wearing a Military uniform
is dishonorable and violates that individuals right
to free speech.
I believe it would serve the interests of accurate discussion if you went back to the root of
where your comments are coming from. The article read "At a peaceful protest against
military recruitment..." It did not say 'at a peaceful protest against a military
person."
Apples to apples, please.
Todd Swearingen
Larry Foran wrote:
Mike,
I understand your position but I must still disagree with the method
being employed to reach the goal.
Todd,
I must agressively disagree with your perception. As someone who
has been there gone through the enlistment process and served for 21
years. I know what goes on inside.
I agree that a military recruiter will paint as "rosey" a picture of
service as possible, but no one has to volunteer. No one is holding a
gun to your head and forcing you to enlist/accept a commision. It is
interesting the much of the activism against the Military is located
at "Institutions of Higher Learning" were discourse and discussion is
supposted to be applauded, but the military which defends those rights
are not allowed to have free expression.
I am sure that every job/position/employment you accepted was "void
of manipulation". The only difference would be that you could simply
leave.
To enter military service and then say, I dont want to go there! or
I don't want to do that! is simply childish selfcenterdness (sp).
Protest the Government, Protest its policies, Work through your
elected officials, but protesting a member wearing a Military uniform
is dishonorable and violates that individuals right to free speech.
Larry
On 6/3/05, Appal Energy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Larry,
Military recruitment/recruiters are as much a part of the problem as are
the policy makers.
All one has to do is look at the deceptive, predatory and intimidating
practices of recruitment to gain insight as to the manipulative
mentality that must be well guarded against in all ranks/levels of a
theoretically free society.
Until recruitment practices across the board are void of manipulation,
they are as much fair game for protest as is anyone or any segment of
any institution that also manipulates, preys upon and deceives a
nation's citizenry.
Let those who wish to serve enter into service under no illusions, not
under fog of promise or incomplete and/or inaccurate premise(s).
Todd Swearingen
Mike,
I agree that anyone should be allowed to PEACEFULLY protest, but I
find it disturbing that individuals would protest military recruiters
on college campuses(sp). I am retired military and feel a strong bond
with our military.
Feel free to protest the administrations positions/policies, but
protesting military recruitment is dishonoring those who place their
lives on the line in defence of the freedoms we enjoy each day.
Military personnel are following the orders of "elected" civilian
officials. Military personnel do not have the latitude to dissent
(unless those orders are unlawful).
If students, teacher, or other professionals want to protest the
government, then protest against the government, not the Military
which is following the orders of the Government which was elected by
those students, teachers, and/or professionals.
Larry
On 6/2/05, Michael Redler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Every once in a while, there is some good news about those who struggle
against the current administration and their policies. Since we touch on the
crisis in this forum, I thought some of you might be a little encouraged by
this small victory.
Mike
_________________________________________
DISTRICT ATTORNEY DROPS CHARGES AGAINST THE "CITY FOUR"
CITY COLLEGE STAFF MEMBER TO DEFEND HERSELF IN STEP II HEARING
At a peaceful protest against military recruitment on the City College of
New York (CCNY) campus on March 9, 2005, campus security arrested three
students and a staff member, and beat two of the students, and the college
President, Gregory Williams, suspended the protesters without any
investigation or hearing. Williams broadcast a statement claiming that all
were guilty and that the College wouldn't tolerate "violence." But after a
month's suspension, all four returned to the College when the charges were
dropped. On May 19, the District Attorney (DA) moved to dismiss the charges
within 6 month's time through an Adjournment in Contemplation of Dismissal
(ACD).
Clearly, there was no evidence to try the four. The massive outpouring of
support for the "City Four" and the outrage at City College's attempt to
stifle dissent has helped return the four to their rightful place in the
College community, where they will continue to organize against military
recruitment on campus.
Carol Lang, the Theater Department's secretary, still faces disciplinary
charges at a Step II hearing at 10 AM on Thursday, June 2, at the
University's Central Office, 535 E. 80th St. (at York Avenue). A strong show
of support for Carol is important to remind CCNY that the charges against
her are unfounded and that she is entitled to receive back pay for days she
was wrongfully forced to miss work. Lang should not lose pay or be punished
for charges that, according to the DA, have no merit.
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