Randall, US have already proved that they do not want to give up the veto in UN. This also means that they can veto any change that are suggested for UN. So it is the old story about what comes first.
Yes, there are some other countries that apply torture, most of them are countries that US does not want to be compared with and some of them South Americans that US support and where CIA have proved to be training the military. To be fair, we must also mention China, where US have no influence at all. Yes, I am saying the same about those countries, but unfortunately torture is an internal matter and used to keep their own population under control. Are you suggesting that this is the case in US, it becomes even more worrisome than I thought. So what you say is, as long as ALL Americans are not aware of their country's methods, the rest is absolved from taking actions and are kept in line by torture as other countries. I never thought that you had such a risky and dangerous environment in US. It has changed very much the last few years that I did not visit. Hakan At 21:19 03/05/2006, you wrote: >Hakan, > >To answer your question: No. Your questions imply that ALL Americans have >proof about systematic and long-term torture, and quite simply I do not >believe that you have the evidence to support that assertion. What other >countries have been reported to and are listed with Amnesty International as >having employed torture? Are you going to issue the same indictment of >the citizens of those countries as well? > >Aren't ALL member nations in the UN responsible for not forcing ALL >countries to stop using torture? Using your assertion, aren't the citizens >of all those countries responsible as well? Yes, I know it is easy to say >that the US has a veto on the Security Council...but why not simply change >the system?? Sitting back and just saying that they cannot is the same as >the comparison to 1930's and 1940's Nazi Germany. > >Simply having a vote does not imply responsibilty, much less confer the >ability to force the action (or non-action) of a government. This does >not excuse torture...but nor does it solve it either. I believe you need >to first figure out what makes humans CAPABLE of torture then you can >address the REASONS that humans employ torture. > > >--Randall > >___________________________________________________________________________ > ><< Heisenberg may have slept here >> > >"If I had eight hours to chop down a tree, I'd spend six sharpening my >xe." --Abraham Lincoln > >___________________________________________________________________________ > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Hakan Falk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: <Biofuel@sustainablelists.org> >Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 1:19 PM >Subject: [Biofuel] Are Americans torturers or supporters of torture? > > > > > > US has not stopped torture, according to Amnesty > > > > > http://wireservice.wired.com/wired/story.asp?section=Breaking&storyId=1519912 > > > > Who belive that they stopped? It casts a shadow over all Americans, who > > are responsible for their government. At least republicans are clearly to > > identify with what's going on. This especially elected representatives, > > who refuse to take a stand and stop their support of this administration. > > > > Why is there so little public actions to get rid of the current > > government? > > A massive rejection of its methods, would make them resign, but it is > > no signs of it. No actions are the same as compliancy, Americans of > > today, must have a very good understanding and sympathy for the > > Germans in the 1930's. They only "let it happen" also. > > > > Was Vietnam not enough, or should future generations have to feel > > more guilt of their ancestors behavior. > > > > Hakan > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Biofuel mailing list > > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org > > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 > > messages): > > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Biofuel mailing list >Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > >Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > >Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): >http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ _______________________________________________ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
