>> Many people compost the glycerine cocktail w/o any treatment. I think >> this is best done when KOH is used as the caustic rather than NaOH.
Tom, I don't believe they're actually composting it. But they think they're composting it. The methanol fraction is toxic and the soap/oil fraction will smother almost everything. Jason & Katie, At the level of home manufacture, about the best you can hope for is to create co-/waste-products that are essentially benign, as the amount of effort and infrastructure needed to refine the side-streams is phenomenal and beyond the reach of the average or above average home brewer. What you need are end products that can be disposed of without threat to the environment. Rather than seeking out the million and one possibilities and options, the suggestion would be to keep it simple. Potassium hydroxide and phosphoric acid are as simple as you can get on the base side and for FFA recovery, with sulfuric acid for the acid pre-treatment of high FFA oils. Other acid and caustic combinations only leave you with less than useful, if not toxic, salts. Todd Swearingen Jason& Katie wrote: > i did some reading at wikipedia, and KCl, being part of the final product >in splitting crude glycerine(at least with KOH and HCl), is also used as a >mineral fertilizer, and can be used to cut table salt (theyre about the same >as far as toxicity goes, and it increases potassium levels and total >electrolytes in the human body, not so bad i think) but it has many other >uses in the medical world as antidotes to some poisons, and for food >preparation(probably a preservative,yeech). is this an acceptible byproduct >or should i keep looking? >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Thomas Kelly" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: <biofuel@sustainablelists.org> >Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 7:21 AM >Subject: Re: [Biofuel] more goofy questions > > > > >>Jason & Katie, >> I'm not sure what you mean when you say "clean the glycerine for >>compost". >> Many people compost the glycerine cocktail w/o any treatment. I think >>this is best done when KOH is used as the caustic rather than NaOH. >> I do separate the glycerine because I produce quite a bit of BD >>these >>days. I'm concerned about pouring Kilo after Kilo of caustic, of which >>70%, >>by weight, is Potassium. Sure it's a valuable soil nutrient, but I'd like >>to >>control how much is added to my garden .... which has done just fine on >>pre-BD compost. I also am attempting to recover methanol and have uses for >>the other components of the mix. >> >> I used hydrochloric acid (sold in hardware stores as "muriatic acid") >>before I was able to locate phosphoric. >>I did a few small test batches and got good separation. >>The difference will be the type of mineral "salt" that will precipitate >>out. >>Ex: >>Hydrochloric Acid + Lye (NaOH) forms table salt and water >>HCl + NaOH ----> NaCL (table salt) + H2O >>The table salt is not especially valuable; throw it out? >> >> The salt falls to the bottom and you get FFAs forming a layer on top >>and >>the crude glycerine (+ most of the excess methanol) forming a bottom >>layer. >>The FFAs and the glycerine/methanol are composed of Cs, Hs, and Os. >>They will decompose into CO2 and H2O. They supply nothing in the way of >>soil >>nutrients, but I have found that >>they appear to accelerate decomposition within a compost pile ....... >>not >>only a safe way to dispose of the mix, but some benefit to be gotten. >> >>KOH (during processing) and H3PO4 (split) >>is preferred because the salt produced is Potassium Phosphate ..... >>valuable as fertilizer. >> >> The point is that different acids can be used to split the cocktail >>into FFAs and crude glycerine w. methanol. The >>difference is in the salt (and its value) that is produced. >> >> Vinegar is an organic acid, which tend to be weak acids. It would take >>a lot of vinegar to split the cocktail. >>Probably more expensive than hydrochloric and I don't see that the salt >>produced would have more value. >> >>***By value I don't mean financial, as in sell for profit. I >>dissolve some of the potassium phosphate produced by the split in water >>and >>add it to my compost piles. It has value as in ... can be put to good >>use. >> >> Sorry to get so wordy, but your "goofy question" is part of a >>subject >>that is of great interest to me. >> The splitting of the cocktail may not have the financial payoff that >>brewing BD does, but the feeling of putting to good use what others have >>called "waste products" is akin to the feeling I get when I fill the >>tank(s) w. BD I brewed at home. >> Best of luck to you, >> Tom >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Jason& Katie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>To: <Biofuel@sustainablelists.org> >>Sent: Wednesday, May 31, 2006 12:13 AM >>Subject: [Biofuel] more goofy questions >> >> >> >> >>>what other, more available acids can be used in place of phosphoric to >>>clean >>>glycerine for compost? i have been reading for three hours, and i cant >>>find >>>any experiments or documentation. am i not looking in the right places? >>>has >>>anyone tried using vinegar? this is really bothering me. any ideas? >>> >>> >>>_______________________________________________ >>>Biofuel mailing list >>>Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >>>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org >>> >>>Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >>>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >>> >>>Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 >>>messages): >>>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Biofuel mailing list >>Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >>http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org >> >>Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html >> >>Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 >>messages): >>http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ >> >> >>-- >>No virus found in this incoming message. >>Checked by AVG Free Edition. >>Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.0/353 - Release Date: 5/31/2006 >> >> >> >> > > >_______________________________________________ >Biofuel mailing list >Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > >Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > >Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): >http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
