Zeke Yewdall wrote:
> Somehow, I doubt the wolves posess much danger to the elk and deer > populations long term, Actually they help restore balance to the areas, to a more natural existence when they evolved together this is true, But when you take wolves away for a hundred years then spring them back in you put the ungulates at a terrible disadvantage and as a result you have some areas that are now void of them as a result - No that does not mean they will kill them all or will it stay that way,but now we are asking ungulates to catch up on 100 years of evolution that the wolves never missed out on. What it means is change for everything concerned. I think in another 100 years the balance will return and in places like Yellowstone we will see many benefits and some benefits are happening right now. > as they evolved together. They weren't a "problem" for thousands and > thousands of years. Putting domestic animals that were relatively > easy to kill, and that we "owned" in place of the native game was when > the problem began. It's sort of like leaving all your food out on the > ground in bear country, and then claiming the bears are the problem. > We've compounded it by reducing habitat for the wild game, so the > wolves learn to eat other prey that they normally wouldn't. Actually the biggest problem is not the Wolf eating Cows and Sheep, That will put many of the poor and small farmers out of business in time but the Monforts will afford protection. The BIG problem is how they can re distribute the Ungulate populations as they leave areas they once fled to for protection. The opposite is now happening , Ungulates are fleeing to the agricultural areas as they are protected now from hunters most of the year there.This affords them temporary protection from Wolves. It is on these crop lands that the Elk and Deer find ample food and protection, at least until the Wolf expands his range. So then we plan to hunt the wolf. That plan just affords the elk protection to overpopulate and we have Millions of dollars in damages on crop lands, And wolves forced into the Badlands by hunters, will survive just fine on ample grazing livestock. So it is a loose loose situation for the Livestock or crop producer. The Feds provide no relief to the producers for the damages and only the big corporate producers will survive this human inflicted mess. We hunters will kill wolves as we are allowed, but until you understand how much damage one wolf can do, you will never understand that hunting as a control is to little to late. It took Hunters, trappers, and cyanide getter guns 70 years to push the wolf back in the early days. It is just humorous to think that the that the plan is to hunt them for a control measure. When the wolf gets established in the badlands, that control will be about as effective as a fly swatter for mosquitoes. > It a classic case of overpopulation of an atypical food species, which > is usually kept in check by an increase in predators that can eat > them, but normally don't. It's just rather uncomfortable to find that > we and our livestock are the food species in this equation, instead of > some hapless field mice or such. When you take an Equation eliminate 7 variables, add 10 new ones, eliminate 2 that can never be restored, because of the first 7 then add back 5 of the first, the equation will never return the results it did before the original intervention. As a result we will never know the land as Lewis and Clark did. Global Warming will probably wipe out these folks much faster so it is a moot point anyway. > > That being said, I don't relish being eaten, so I think that killing > wolves that learn that humans are potential prey would probably be a > good idea. Long term, it's not going to solve anything since we've > caused the situation. But long term, it wouldnt be good for wolves to > learn that humans are prey, even after they have their native game back. Yes I agree, Thats why I carry a BIG stick. I hope I don't sound scorching or preaching, I don't intend it if I do, I simply want to make the point this is not a simple problem we have created for ourselves. Jim > > On 8/7/06, *Kirk McLoren* <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote: > > I lived in Montana for many years and some people still remember > the effort and expense we went to to remove them. Just remember > those midwest feedlots often fatten calves from Montana Dakota > Idaho Wyoming. They would be hard pressed to find stock without > those producers. That is what will happen if nothing is done. That > 60 ewes I quoted was as of last May, I dont have more recent info > as we sold our home back there. > When the game are gone then they hunt domestic animals. We are in > that transition now. > So far they just pay the rancher for the carcasses. I havent seen > much re control. > I think it reasonable they will become the problem they once were. > They are still wolves and do what wolves do. > Predators are predators. > Kirk > > > */DHAJOGLO <[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>/* wrote: > Kirk, > I can't tell from your comment on this article whether you feel > issues with wolves are dealt with improperly or if you feel the > meat industry is going to take a real beating from them. We have > wolves here in Minnesota and the farmers truly hate them. However, > seeing as how the northern states make up a smaller percentage of > beef production, it seems the wolf impact would be negligible. > Looking at the USDA site, it appears that the beef populations > would have to take a significant hit (in the order of hundreds of > thousands) to really be impacted. Also, reading the post by > Richard, he seems more concerned about the game populations and > our safety. > > Anyway, here is the link to the USDA with the numbers of our > cattle industry: http://www.ers.usda.gov/news/BSECoverage.htm > <http://www.ers.usda.gov/news/BSECoverage.htm> > > Regards, > -dave > >>Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2006 11:03:57 -0700 (PDT) >>From: Kirk McLoren >>To: biofuel >>Subject: [Biofuel] Wolf attack near Grangeville >> >>If you think beef is expensive now wait till more of them start >>hunting cows instead of deer and elk. A wolf in Stanfield killed 8 >>steers in one night. So much for "they only kill for food". They >>started on sheep last year. Some ranchers are going out of business >>soon. One fellow lost over 60 ewes this spring. >>I bet none of you read any of this in the newspaper though. Or on tv. >>Kirk >> >> >> >> >>"Lady and Blackey: Cry Wolf >> >>By Scott Richard >> >> Hi, my name is Scott Richards and > > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuel mailing list > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org <mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org> > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 > messages): > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > > Groups are talking. We´re listening. Check out the handy changes > to Yahoo! Groups. > > <http://pa.yahoo.com/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=41144/*http://groups.yahoo.com/local/newemail.html> > > > _______________________________________________ > Biofuel mailing list > Biofuel@sustainablelists.org <mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org> > http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > > <http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org> > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 > messages): > http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Biofuel mailing list >Biofuel@sustainablelists.org >http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org > >Biofuel at Journey to Forever: >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > >Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): >http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ > > > _______________________________________________ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
