TCAT use to have a couple of small buses, and still has that ersatz trolley.. The problem with the small buses was that their short chassis and stiff suspension could make the ride pretty miserable for passengers. They also took the bike racks off them after they lost a bike or two from all the bouncing around. Trying to hold one's place on the wooden seats while the ersatz trolley bus rounded a curve was no pleasure either. The smaller buses are also problematic when it comes to providing transportation to all residents regardless of physical ability: they are much harder ot fit with the wheelchair ramps and "kneeling" technology. There is also little cost difference between running a small buse and a regular size bus both in terms of $$$ and fuel. Regardless of anybody's desires for increased transit, the threshold for an minimally economically sustainable transit system, without heavy subsidies, is a density of 4-5 dwellings per acre within the service area. Almost all lands in the Town of Ithaca with potential for development within a resonable distance of the city are zoned for less than 3 dwelling per acres, and a good chunk of West Hill within the City zone for only 3-4 dwellings per acre. Zoning is indeed a major obstacle to improved public transit and providing an alternative to the automobile - throughout Tompkins County George Frantz
--- On Tue, 10/21/08, Andy Goodell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: From: Andy Goodell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [SustainableTompkins] TCAT discussion To: "Sustainable Tompkins County listserv" <[email protected]> Date: Tuesday, October 21, 2008, 4:58 PM 10 minute bus service is great, but it's much more likely that a high demand came first. I doubt a 10 minute run to outlying towns would increase demand much. I'm on the 21, which I think just went from hourly service on Saturdays to every 2 hours. As long as I plan my trips, I don't feel hindered by less service. If the choices were to buy big buses or not have buses, I wouldn't call it a silly choice. And before thinking that smaller buses will be better, there have been times when I have been on full buses. I think a combination of small and large buses could work well, but I think the large buses are very important to certain routes and certain times of the day. -Andy Margaret McCasland wrote: > I've been wondering about this for years. > > BTW, I know those giant buses cause traffic problems in town and are > mostly empty most of the time. Back when we were trying to restore > Cayuga and Aurora as 2 way streets (partial success there), we were > told the giant buses were the reason they had to stay one way. > > I was given some silly reason for buying the biggest buses possible > back when I first pushed for restoring the two-way patter. It was > something like "but the feds will pay most of the cost, so we may as > well get bigger buses." But maybe there was a better reason. Now that > operating costs are higher, maybe the cost-benefit equation will shift > towards smaller, more frequent buses. And watch what happens to > ridership when buses come every 30 or even 15-20 minutes; just think > how popular the 10 minute shuttles are. > > Thanks to Valorie for asking a key question (and for deleting the > previous content so her post doesn't have a "long tail"). > > Margaret > > On Oct 21, 2008, at 9:26 AM, Valorie Rockney wrote: > >> Thanks, Ben, for posting this - it's very useful information. >> >> Is there any discussion currently about using smaller, more fuel- >> efficient buses, at least during non-peak times? . A few years ago, I >> heard that such buses weren't eligible for certain kinds of funding - >> is that the case now? >> >> Thanks, everyone, >> Valorie >> >> >> >> >> >> On Oct 21, 2008, at 9:18 AM, Ben Heavner wrote: >> >>> Hi Sustainable Tompkins Folks! >>> >>> There's been some interesting discussion lately about mass transit >>> choices being made right now in the City of Ithaca that I thought I'd >>> pass along in hopes of finding some creative solutions to the >>> possibility of reduced TCAT service in Ithaca and surrounding areas. >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> For more information about sustainability in the Tompkins County >> area, please visit: http://www.sustainabletompkins.org/ >> >> RSS, archives, subscription & listserv information for: >> [email protected] >> http://lists.mutualaid.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainabletompkins >> free hosting by http://www.mutualaid.org > > _______________________________________________ > For more information about sustainability in the Tompkins County area, please visit: http://www.sustainabletompkins.org/ > > RSS, archives, subscription & listserv information for: > [email protected] > http://lists.mutualaid.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainabletompkins > free hosting by http://www.mutualaid.org > > > -- Andy Goodell Assistant Director www.IthacaCarshare.org 607.277.3210 _______________________________________________ For more information about sustainability in the Tompkins County area, please visit: http://www.sustainabletompkins.org/ RSS, archives, subscription & listserv information for: [email protected] http://lists.mutualaid.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainabletompkins free hosting by http://www.mutualaid.org _______________________________________________ For more information about sustainability in the Tompkins County area, please visit: http://www.sustainabletompkins.org/ RSS, archives, subscription & listserv information for: [email protected] http://lists.mutualaid.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainabletompkins free hosting by http://www.mutualaid.org
