Thanks for the background on buses (maybe we should go for middle-size buses?).
In the meantime, I think I will continue pushing for more and better located "park and rides" along major routes closer to town, where having more frequent routes make more sense. For instance, a MAJOR park and ride on the county land near the hospital would serve big chunks of northwestern Town of Ithaca, northeastern Enfield and southern Ulysses. I think TCAT is missing the boat on this one. A lot of Cornell people would appreciate a park'n'ride there. Margaret On Oct 21, 2008, at 3:38 PM, George Frantz wrote: > TCAT use to have a couple of small buses, and still has that ersatz > trolley.. > > The problem with the small buses was that their short chassis and > stiff suspension could make the ride pretty miserable for > passengers. They also took the bike racks off them after they lost > a bike or two from all the bouncing around. > > Trying to hold one's place on the wooden seats while the ersatz > trolley bus rounded a curve was no pleasure either. > > The smaller buses are also problematic when it comes to providing > transportation to all residents regardless of physical ability: > they are much harder ot fit with the wheelchair ramps and "kneeling" > technology. > > There is also little cost difference between running a small buse > and a regular size bus both in terms of $$$ and fuel. > > Regardless of anybody's desires for increased transit, the threshold > for an minimally economically sustainable transit system, without > heavy subsidies, is a density of 4-5 dwellings per acre within the > service area. Almost all lands in the Town of Ithaca with potential > for development within a resonable distance of the city are zoned > for less than 3 dwelling per acres, and a good chunk of West Hill > within the City zone for only 3-4 dwellings per acre. > > Zoning is indeed a major obstacle to improved public transit and > providing an alternative to the automobile - throughout Tompkins > County > > > George Frantz > > --- On Tue, 10/21/08, Andy Goodell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > From: Andy Goodell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: [SustainableTompkins] TCAT discussion > To: "Sustainable Tompkins County listserv" > <[email protected] > > > Date: Tuesday, October 21, 2008, 4:58 PM > > 10 minute bus service is great, but it's much more likely that a high > demand came first. I doubt a 10 minute run to outlying towns would > increase demand much. I'm on the 21, which I think just went from > hourly > service on Saturdays to every 2 hours. As long as I plan my trips, I > don't feel hindered by less service. > > If the choices were to buy big buses or not have buses, I wouldn't > call > it a silly choice. And before thinking that smaller buses will be > better, there have been times when I have been on full buses. I > think a > combination of small and large buses could work well, but I think the > large buses are very important to certain routes and certain times of > the day. > > -Andy > > Margaret McCasland wrote: >> I've been wondering about this for years. >> >> BTW, I know those giant buses cause traffic problems in town and are >> mostly empty most of the time. Back when we were trying to restore >> Cayuga and Aurora as 2 way streets (partial success there), we were >> told the giant buses were the reason they had to stay one way. >> >> I was given some silly reason for buying the biggest buses possible >> back when I first pushed for restoring the two-way patter. It was >> something like "but the feds will pay most of the cost, so we may as > >> well get bigger buses." But maybe there was a better reason. Now that > >> operating costs are higher, maybe the cost-benefit equation will >> shift >> towards smaller, more frequent buses. And watch what happens to >> ridership when buses come every 30 or even 15-20 minutes; just think >> how popular the 10 minute shuttles are. >> >> Thanks to Valorie for asking a key question (and for deleting the >> previous content so her post doesn't have a "long tail"). >> >> Margaret >> >> On Oct 21, 2008, at 9:26 AM, Valorie Rockney wrote: >> >>> Thanks, Ben, for posting this - it's very useful information. >>> >>> Is there any discussion currently about using smaller, more fuel- >>> efficient buses, at least during non-peak times? . A few years >>> ago, I >>> heard that such buses weren't eligible for certain kinds of > funding - >>> is that the case now? >>> >>> Thanks, everyone, >>> Valorie >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Oct 21, 2008, at 9:18 AM, Ben Heavner wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Sustainable Tompkins Folks! >>>> >>>> There's been some interesting discussion lately about mass > transit >>>> choices being made right now in the City of Ithaca that I thought > I'd >>>> pass along in hopes of finding some creative solutions to the >>>> possibility of reduced TCAT service in Ithaca and surrounding > areas. >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> For more information about sustainability in the Tompkins County >>> area, please visit: http://www.sustainabletompkins.org/ >>> >>> RSS, archives, subscription & listserv information for: >>> [email protected] >>> http://lists.mutualaid.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainabletompkins >>> free hosting by http://www.mutualaid.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> For more information about sustainability in the Tompkins County >> area, > please visit: http://www.sustainabletompkins.org/ >> >> RSS, archives, subscription & listserv information for: >> [email protected] >> http://lists.mutualaid.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainabletompkins >> free hosting by http://www.mutualaid.org >> >> >> > > -- > Andy Goodell > Assistant Director > www.IthacaCarshare.org > 607.277.3210 > > > _______________________________________________ > For more information about sustainability in the Tompkins County > area, please > visit: http://www.sustainabletompkins.org/ > > RSS, archives, subscription & listserv information for: > [email protected] > http://lists.mutualaid.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainabletompkins > free hosting by http://www.mutualaid.org > > > > > _______________________________________________ > For more information about sustainability in the Tompkins County > area, please visit: http://www.sustainabletompkins.org/ > > RSS, archives, subscription & listserv information for: > [email protected] > http://lists.mutualaid.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainabletompkins > free hosting by http://www.mutualaid.org _______________________________________________ For more information about sustainability in the Tompkins County area, please visit: http://www.sustainabletompkins.org/ RSS, archives, subscription & listserv information for: [email protected] http://lists.mutualaid.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainabletompkins free hosting by http://www.mutualaid.org
