On Fri, Jan 18, 2019 at 5:54 AM Tobias Wrede <l...@tobias-wrede.de> wrote: > > So I wonder whether we should map all trial x road junctions as > > trailheads or limit them to places with more facilities (just to be > > clear, locally, in Flanders). I don't know. > > I see your point. I had forgotten about node networks. While I haven't > really seen any for hiking yet personally, they are also growing here > for the cycling network. And of course they are mapped as route > relations. I'm not sure if I should reconsider my earlier suggestion to > put trailheads on anything in a route relation or not. While you clearly > also have to enter a node network somewhere I see them more as a general > navigation aid than a "trail". Whenever I use them I start from home or > wherever I am, find my way to the closest node in the general direction > and take it from there. I don't go to that node by car or bus first. > It's probable that I already enter the network somewhere inbetween two > nodes. > > So I wouldn't consider every node as a trailhead. And i would not put a > trailhead on every intersection of a road and a network leg. If there > was a somehow designated or customary place, though, where you would > start hiking/cycling on the node network that could be marked as a > trailhead with the same rights as on a "classical trail". > > Does that make sense?
We have networks of urban trails in the US as well, and some of our wilderness trails briefly enter towns. We have rail-trails and even some peculiar hybrids. (The Long Path in New York walks on everything from Broadway in New York City to a stretch in the Catskills that's probably T3-T4 on the Swiss Alpine Club scale.) I'll admit that in all the talking at cross purposes, I wasn't giving enough thought to urban trails, even though I've mapped them. You're entirely right that I wouldn't call every road-trail intersection a 'trailhead' in a suburban preserve like the area in https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/42.8044/-73.8567 ! If asked what I might designate by that name, it would be just the parking at the turning circle in front of the gate to the wastewater plant, and possibly the area by the Lock 7 boat launch. Those, and not the many entrances off the surrounding streets, are where most users start walking or cycling. I might not tag Blatnick Park to the north, because most users of the park are there for other recreations. Dog walkers, ball players, disc golfers, and the like are often surprised to see walkers or cyclists heading off into the woods using trail entrances that are marked only with paint blazes. The trailheads, now that I think about it, are the ones with signboards, parking, seating, and so on. (Generally not names, we simply don't often assign names to trallheads on this side of the pond - we just call them "the XYZ trailhead" where XYZ is the name of some nearby feature.) I do, every day, jump on and off the Mohawk-Hudson Bike/Hike Trail at non-designated trailheads - because I live a couple of city blocks from it, and my workplace is right by it as well, so it's part of my daily commute. And you're right that when I turn off the foot/cycleway onto the driveway of my workplace, I wouldn't label that a 'trailhead!' Moving into the woods and farms, but still very close to the city, near https://www.openstreetmap.org/query?lat=42.82108&lon=-73.98706#map=15/42.8080/-74.1299 I'd label the crossings as 'trailheads' only for the ones that have signboards and parking (often for just a couple of cars!) People don't customarily start or end a trip just anywhere that the trail crosses a road. By the time you're in the Big Woods, where the road crossings are separated by what's often more than a day's walk, every road crossing is indeed a trailhead, no matter how few facilities it offers. For the urban/suburban ones, I've really never thought of mapping them specially - because generally just, 'here is parking' and the presence of trails was something I thought was enough. I can see, nevertheless, where a special-purpose map devoted to outdoor recreation might want to show 'here's a good place to start to walk/run/cycle/ride/ski' - with the appropriate sport icons, so I'm surely not averse to mapping them. The backcountry ones are much more Spartan, and I have been inclined to map them, not only as "here's a place to start a hike/ski tour" but more importantly as "here's a place to get *out* of the wilderness in the event of trouble". I still think that 'designated or customary place to start or end a trip' covers them all, though. Where I jump on and off the foot/cycleway on the way to work is neither designated nor customary for recreational users - the spots are certainly lawful, and used by the people in my neighbourhood, but most users of that trail would walk or ride right past them. Wilderness trips customarily start and end, well, wherever you can reach that's close to where you want to go. If I have to road-walk a couple or three km because there's nowhere to park at the trailhead, I'll grumble, but it's part of the experience. _______________________________________________ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
