Thanks for all the replies. Just a note on verifiability; always assuming they are waymarked:
- for car routes, it's pretty obvious whether it's part of a functional network (say A8 or E40) or a pretty network (with a nice name and a roundabout layout) - for cycle networks, in the cases I know, the operator has clear vision documents as to the purpose of the network (recreation VS commuting VS mountainbiking). When this information is not available in a straightforward way, or it just doesn't have a specific function, you just don't add the possible subtag. This in itself is an argument for creating a subtag rather than new values of the existing main classification. Since the function of the routes overlaps between both cycle and car routes, I think I'd prefer a tag that can be used on all route relations. Joost Op ma 13 jan. 2020 23:13 schreef Volker Schmidt <vosc...@gmail.com>: > Bicycle or hiking routes in OSM that are not trailblazed have one big > drawback: they confuse data end users (they are looking for the signs, and > if there are none, think they have taken the wrong turn. > > On Mon, 13 Jan 2020, 19:21 brad, <bradha...@fastmail.com> wrote: > >> >> >> On 1/12/20 4:23 PM, Joseph Eisenberg wrote: >> >> Paris is the capital of France because it has all the main government >> facilities: the legislature, the executive, the judiciary and most >> ministries. >> >> Routes that are mapped in Openstreetmap need to be signed or marked in a >> visible way. Otherwise every Stava user will add their favorite training >> loop to the map as a running route or road cycling route. >> >> Joseph >> >> I think this is an overreaction. There are many routes that meet the >> wiki description (and my own reasonableness test) that are not signed or >> marked. I do see many routes in my area that should not be routes, but >> that is only a minor annoyance. >> >> >> >> On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 2:02 AM Florimond Berthoux < >> florimond.berth...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Asking me how do I know that Eurovelo 3 is for tourism or bicycle >>> trekking is like asking me how do I know that Paris is the capital of >>> France. >>> « Is there a sign saying that Paris is the capital of France? May be we >>> should remove that tag, don't you think?... » >>> >>> You don't need sign post to have a route, do you have a sign post at the >>> intersection of those routes ? >>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=12/45.1485/-4.1705 >>> I doubt that. >>> >>> This is how the Wiki define a route: >>> « A *route* is a customary or regular line of passage or travel, often >>> predetermined and publicized. Routes consist of paths taken repeatedly by >>> people and vehicles: a ship on the North Atlantic route, a car on a >>> numbered road, a bus on its route or a cyclist on a national route. » >>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relation:route >>> >>> So to paraphrase this for road biking route : >>> « A road bicycle *route* is a customary or regular line of passage or >>> travel, often predetermined and publicized as such. Road bicycle routes >>> consist of paths taken repeatedly by road cyclist. » >>> >>> And if you don't know then don't tag it and don't manage it. >>> >>> Le sam. 11 janv. 2020 à 23:35, Joseph Eisenberg < >>> joseph.eisenb...@gmail.com> a écrit : >>> > >>> > > I am not against distinguishing more types of cycling routes, I am >>> all for it, as long as it's verifyable, mappable with clear tagging, and >>> manageable. >>> > >>> > +1 >>> > >>> > I started using Openstreetmap because I wanted to add touring routes >>> > and recreational bike routes in RideWithGPS and then found out that >>> > http://ridewithgps.com uses Openstreetmap data which I could edit. And >>> > I get to work and take kids to school and shop by bike - I haven't >>> > owned a car for 9 years. >>> > >>> > So I would love to have more information about what streets and roads >>> > are best for getting from point A to B, and which ones are nice for >>> > training rides and which ones are fun for tours. >>> > >>> > But tags have to be verifiable: if the next mapper can't confirm that >>> > a tag as right, the data in Openstreetmap will not be maintained >>> > properly. Subjective tags cannot work. >>> > >>> > I have seen this happen: before I mapped here, I used to try to >>> > improve the bike routes in Portland Oregon for Google Maps. But since >>> > there was no definition of a "preferred" bicycle street, and it was >>> > hard to delete a preferred route once it was added, the bike layer was >>> > full of disconnected segments. Some were from old city maps of bike >>> > routes, some were based on the personal preference of the mapper, and >>> > some were actually signed or marked on the ground, but you couldn't >>> > tell them apart. >>> > >>> > If there is a sign or marking that specifies that a certain route is >>> > designed for mountain bikes or for bike racing, then sure, you can tag >>> > that. But most bike routes do not have anything to specify that they >>> > are more for commuting or more for recreation, and in that case we >>> > can't tag the distinction. >>> > >>> > Fortunately, database users (like routing applications) can look at >>> > other Openstreetmap data, like surface=* tags on ways, and external >>> > data like elevation models, to determine if a route is a difficult >>> > single-track trail through the hills versus a flat paved path along a >>> > canal, and use this to help route cyclists appropriately. >>> > >>> > - Joseph Eisenberg >>> >>> -- >>> Florimond Berthoux >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Tagging mailing list >>> Tagging@openstreetmap.org >>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Tagging mailing >> listTagging@openstreetmap.orghttps://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Tagging mailing list >> Tagging@openstreetmap.org >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >> > _______________________________________________ > Tagging mailing list > Tagging@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >
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