<also for the link your page explaining connectivity:lane. I had not heard about that one before. but now I have to go over all my work of the past few months to add that tag where needed :-)>
since a lot (> 98%?) of the crossings are simple in terms of destination (like: when you go left you're driving towards Antwerp) and thus have obvious connectivity, a relation like connectivity:lane will not be needed often. There is no standard yet for tagging non-obvious connectivity. Please let me know if you think you have found a situation where non-obvious connectivity occurs. <What I mean with splitting the outgoing road, is how far do we want the destination to extend: til the next crossing, even when that is kilometers away ? or the other extreme, split the street after a few meters, so that future mappers won't split the street further on, and still keep the destination tag on both segments ?> Having destination info on way segments is just needed to provide information to the driver. Therefore, I would from a practical point of view limit this destination data to situations close to junctions. This will also avoid using the forward and backward destination tagging. The exact length is I think not so important. I would just use the first segment available regardless of its length. <So you won't add lanes:destination before the crossing ? (just to make sure) No, not in this situation. That would only be needed in situations where there is a difference in destinations immediately áfter the crossing (the left lane directly after the crossing going to destination x, the right lane immediately after the crossing going to destination y) <What I meant is that Google is only allowed to copyright artwork, not facts nor even some pictures or parts thereof representing facts like road signs. I don't see why you need copying pictures to build destination tags.> The DWG is clear on using contents of Google's photos: https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/legal-talk/2014-April/007750.html. Luckily, However, Mapillary can be used: http://www.mapillary.com/osm.html. All it takes for Google (being the nice company they are) is start using the same words: For the purpose of contributing metadata to OpenStreetMap, we allow anyone to derive metadata from our photos. Cheers, Johan 2014-09-12 15:28 GMT+02:00 André Pirard <a.pirard.pa...@gmail.com>: > On 2014-09-11 00:27, Johan C wrote : > > Hi André > > <OSM GPS routers use destination > <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:destination>=* not to compute the > routes, they can do without, but to know what the drivers see on the signs > in order to use the same information in spoken instructions> > > That's correct > > <Shouldn't the same ref=* <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:ref> as > of the motorway be used on all highway > <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:highway>=motorway_link > <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dmotorway_link>?> > > *If the motorway link has these signs*, they can be used. > > *<there is no name to use* for a GPS to call a motorway entrance.> > > The OSM situation should *reflect current signage*: if there are no > signs, the destination tag should not be used > > So, I had correctly understood despite that, as unfortunately often the > case, the key definition is very badly stated (the proof of that is that > the French and German translators have got it and translated totally > wrong). So, I made the following change to the wiki: > Old: > > The key *destination* describes the destination of the way by using the > name of the city the way is heading to, which is explicitly indicated in a > signpost or similiar on the ground. > > New: > > So that GPS-like software can refer to road signs that the driver actually > sees, the key *destination*=* describes the contents of signposts or > ground writing indicating the names of the cities that the way on which the > key is tagged is leading to. > > It is worth spending time to precisely write definitions. > It avoids many map mistakes needing much more time to fix and makes a much > better OSM. > > <I'm not sure you can copy the pictures> > > Google is a nice company, but they are not open. Their terms prohibit > copying contents pictures. But all it takes to get lane assistant in > Belgium is a few people who access motorways every now and then taking > pictures of the signs. > > What I meant is that Google is only allowed to copyright artwork, not > facts nor even some pictures or parts thereof representing facts like road > signs. I don't see why you need copying pictures to build destination tags. > > Cheers, > > André. > > > Cheers, Johan > > > > 2014-09-10 23:30 GMT+02:00 André Pirard <a.pirard.pa...@gmail.com>: > >> On 2014-09-09 22:14, Johan C wrote : >> >> In Nederland heb ik de snelwegen op veel plaatsen voorzien van >> bestemmingen. Als bijrijder ben ik in de gelegenheid geweest om afgelopen >> maand de bebording op de route Breda-Antwerpen-Gent-Kortrijk-Lille vice >> versa te fotograferen. Die wil ik graag op de manier zoals ik die in >> Nederland heb getagd gaan taggen. Dat houdt het volgende in: >> >> In the Netherlands I have the highways in many places equipped >> destinations. As a passenger, I had the opportunity to be on the route >> Breda-Antwerp-Ghent-Kortrijk-Lille to photograph. Past month the boarding >> vice versa I would like the way I tagged in the Netherlands go tag them. >> That means the following: >> >> - invoeren destination details conform de werkwijze op >> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Destination_details, >> inclusief het invoeren van het afritnummer met de tag junction:ref >> >> - Enter destination details according to the procedure on >> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Destination_details, >> including entering the exit number junction with the tag: ref >> >> >> - het positioneren van de motorway_junction conform >> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Lane_assist/Examples/Motorway_exit, >> oftewel juist voor de doorgetrokken streep >> >> - het positioneren van de motorway_junction conform >> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Lane_assist/Examples/Motorway_exit, >> oftewel juist voor de doorgetrokken streep >> >> >> Het mooie van het toevoegen van de destinations is dat dit een stap is >> om een rijstrookassistent te krijgen in OSM. Mijn op OSM gebaaseerde Garmin >> is al in staat om de bestemmingen niet alleen weer te geven maar ook uit te >> spreken, wat erg handig is in drukke verkeerssituaties. Diverse andere OSM >> routeringsprogramma's ondersteunen de bestemmingen eveneens. >> >> Ik wil graag meehelpen om ook andere Belgische snelwegen te voorzien >> van de bestemmingen, maar op sommige Belgische snelwegen kom ik erg weinig >> tot nooit. Zouden jullie kunnen helpen door het nemen van foto's van de >> bebording cq het opnemen van ritten op de snelwegen met een dashcam? >> >> The beauty of adding destinations is that this is a step to get into OSM. >> Lane guidance My OFM gebaaseerde Garmin has been able to show the >> destinations not only weather but also to speak, which is very convenient >> in traffic situations. Various other OSM routing programs also support the >> destinations. >> >> I would like to also help provide the destinations, other Belgian >> motorways but some Belgian highways I get very little or never. Could you >> help by taking pictures of the signage or the inclusion of journeys on >> motorways with a dashcam? >> >> Hi Johan, >> >> As I understand it (1) OSM GPS routers use destination >> <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:destination>=* not to compute >> the routes, they can do without, but to know what the drivers see on the >> signs in order to use the same information in spoken instructions (e. g. >> call a lane by its destination if possible). Similarly for ref=* >> <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:ref> and name >> <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:name>=*. >> >> I did not understand every word you wrote, but it looks like you want the >> content of the Destination signposting. They are all here on Google >> Street View <https://maps.google.be/maps?>. I'm not sure you can copy >> the pictures, but pictures is not what is necessary for OSM: what is >> written on the road signs is legal information and cannot be copyrighted. >> >> My survey. >> >> On E25. >> destination <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:destination>=* is >> not used anywhere and ref=* <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:ref> >> is *not used* on highway <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:highway> >> =motorway_link >> <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dmotorway_link>. >> Hence, *there is no name to use* for a GPS to call a motorway entrance. >> For motorway exits, such a ref is useless but ref=* >> <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:ref> is used all-right on highway >> <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:highway>=motorway_junction >> <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dmotorway_junction>. >> >> Shouldn't the same ref=* <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:ref> >> as of the motorway be used on all highway >> <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:highway>=motorway_link >> <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Dmotorway_link>? >> On other major highways. >> name <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:name>=* is used but the >> driver sees no (real) signs (plates) for it. >> ref=* <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:ref> is almost always >> present but the road sign (e.g. N30) is sometimes missing on the ground, >> which is annoying for the driver in a roundabout or at the fork to two main >> directions. >> >> I tried to contact the MET to report a few such cases, but they did not >> reply. >> *Does anyone know* how to signal the MET their mistakes or should we tag >> for the minister? >> >> On 2014-09-10 10:12, Sander Deryckere wrote : >> >> >> destination:lanes=Brno;Poysdorf;Mistelbach|Brno;Poysdorf;Mistelbach;Graz;Wien|Graz;Wien >> destination:ref:lanes=A5|A5;S1;A2|S1;A2 >> destination:country:lanes=CZ|CZ;SK;H;SLO;I|SK;H;SLO;I >> destination:symbol:lanes=|airport|airport >> >> Are we really trying to hang ourselves? >> >> >> Let us think before such an extreme outcome :-) >> >> I'm not a lanes specialist, but it seems to me that lane drawing topology >> is enough for routing software to know and tell the driver which of the >> lanes (n°1, n°2, n°3) to take to get to another lane ahead. >> So, the question is: what should the GPS tell the driver (click, choose >> language, click loudspeaker): >> >> - That ??? >> >> <https://translate.google.be/?#en/nl/Take%20a%20lane%20to%0AGraz%3BWien%3B%0AS1%3BA2%3B%0ACzechoslovakia%3BHungary%3BSlovenia%3BItaly%3B%0Aairport%0A%0A.%20.%20.%20.%20.%20.%20.%20.%20.%0A%0ATake%20a%20lane%20to%0ABrno%3BPoysdorf%3BMistelbach%3B%0AA5%3B%0ACzechoslovakia%3B> >> - or this ??? >> >> <https://translate.google.be/?#en/nl/Take%20a%20lane%20to%20S1%0A%0A.%20.%20.%20.%20.%20.%20.%20.%20.%0A%0ATake%20a%20lane%20to%20A5> >> >> Is it really necessary to make a mess by trying to spell/translate every >> place in/to every language (2)? >> Isn't it wiser to use only the (ref) numbering system devised and used >> for everybody's convenience? >> That's including OSM. >> I think that just the destination:ref is necessary, and only if it cannot >> be derived from topology. >> The names on the signs are for those who drive without GPS and as a >> reassuring double check. >> Or in the rare cases there would be no refs. >> >> Anyway, that said, I'll never map anything with the :lanes extension >> myself, nor will I edit any such tag, but I you're willing to go through >> that painful process, I won't stop you. >> >> (oh, and if you want cooperation for all Belgian highways, better also >> put your message in English or French). >> >> It worked ;-) >> >> (1) they can do without them. This is unfortunately badly explained once >> again. >> (2) I usually listen to Osmand in English. >> Easier to understand (must be my ear too) and sounding like navigating to >> the moon (add beeps). >> But the real fun is trying to understand French names pronounced à la >> English !!! :-) >> >> André. >> >> - Dutch - detected >> - English >> - French >> - Russian >> >> >> - English >> - French >> - Russian >> >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > Talk-be mailing > listTalk-be@openstreetmap.orghttps://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be > > >
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