Strangely enough that doesn't work either. There was a suggest that the street name be "rue Sparks Street" which is fine on a printed map but hell when you come to do an electronic search you need to enter "rue Sparks etc. You don't need the full name but Sparks by itself doesn't work which is why I looked for other solutions. The new street signs are of the form "rue Sparks Street" but older ones with just the street name "Prestone" or English only "Prestone Drive" are still around.
It other parts of the world name name:second language eg name:fr etc is used and its documented in the OSM wiki. By using it I can produce maps in either English or French. I think Ottawa is the only city in Canada that has a by-law that specifies street names should be available in both official languages and it specifies the translation. In Gatineau, Montreal etc the problem doesn't arise. Whilst I agree computers ought to understand what I think for the moment we are stuck with search algorithms that look for an exact match. In Ottawa some imported CANVEC street names that were two words followed by street etc unfortunately had two spaces in between the two part name. These have been caught and corrected but they were a problem for electronic searching. I've actually seen an American tourist pull out a laptop and use JOSM to search an off line map to search for a street in Ottawa so its not just Nomination that you have to be concerned about there are many programs that are used to search OSM data. My background is writing specifications for word processing emails etc in Federal government and I am very aware that many francophones have different opinions about the language. So generally I research an authority and go with that. In my opinion the authority for Ottawa street names is the Ottawa by-law. If we get a mixture or inconsistency then that is worst than either case. Computers do not handle inconsistency well. To make it more usable it should be one way or the other and its not something I use so in many ways I'm not too bothered which but having added them to 97% of highways in Ottawa in a consistent manner that adhered to the Ottawa by-law so they were searchable its a little disappointing that they have been modified. Reality is as I say I doubt it is used by anyone, it was purely put in to meet bilingual requirements and demonstrate what could be done. On a practical note I think it is 99% of francophones in Ottawa felt comfortable using English although service is offered in both official languages. Cheerio John On 26 September 2016 at 15:02, Gordon Dewis <gor...@pinetree.org> wrote: > I think John's point is that the official name for "Sparks Street" is "rue > Sparks", not "Rue Sparks". If I were to go and confirm street names by > conducting an in-the-field survey, I would find that the sign says "rue > Sparks Street", not "Rue Sparks Street". Whether this follows the rules of > French according to l'Académie française, or some other body, is a > different conversation. If I ask the City of Ottawa, they will tell me "rue > Sparks", and that's what should appear in OSM. > > --G > > On Sep 26, 2016, 14:31 -0400, Pierre Choffet <p...@wanadoo.fr>, wrote: > > Le 26/09/2016 à 13:02, john whelan a écrit : > > > I suggest you take it up with the City of Ottawa since they have the > responsibility for naming the streets. > > John, nous avons bien noté que ton premier message n'était pas une « > demande de commentaires », mais une injonction à respecter une décision > prise par la communauté locale d'Ottawa, laquelle impose *de fait* sa > manière de cartographier sur son territoire. Il n'est néanmoins pas > anormal de lancer une discussion en postant sur une liste de diffusion, > et de recueillir des avis différents, a fortiori lorsqu'ils sont > accompagnés de justifications. > La légitimité de la communauté locale n'est pas remise en question, > c'est pourquoi j'invite tout le monde à respecter cette volonté pour la > Ville d'Ottawa, fusse-t-elle pour le moins étonnante pour les francophones. > > French in Canada is quite different to other countries. For example > accents are not normally used in upper case in France but in Canada > there are differences of opinion and it seems to relate to the opinion > of your teacher. > > Je ne peux par contre pas te laisser dire une telle aberration. > L'Académie française¹ et l'usage sur OSM² sont parfaitement clairs à ce > sujet. L'accent sur les lettres diacritiques sur les majuscules est > obligatoire en France, recommandé au Canada³, quoiqu'en pensent tes > professeurs. > > There is very little consensus on what characters are used in the > French language. One accented character only occurs in a single > French place name. Fun when you need to define the character set. > 863 is Canadian French character set by the way that is not used in > other countries. > > DOS n'est plus largement utilisé depuis plusieurs décennies, y compris > dans les régions francophones du monde. Nous utilisons aussi la norme > Unicode⁴ laquelle permet de représenter tous les signes utilisés à > travers le monde. > > This is the second time this month that anglophones (generally) have > been discussing how to deal with names in other languages (see also > the Nunavut place names thread). I think we need to be *very* careful > about that: there’s an excellent chance that we don’t know what we’re > talking about. > > J'appuie totalement cette remarque. Le choix de mettre plusieurs langues > séparées par un espace au sein d'un unique champ n'a aucun sens et va > même à l'encontre des travaux en cours sur le sujet⁵. Je ne suis pas > intervenu à l'époque de ce choix, je ne m'étendrai donc pas davantage > sur le sujet maintenant, mais ça m'amène au point suivant, puisque des > arguments. > > I only know of two renderers that use the French name and they are a > custom set of rules I made for Maperitive and also they can be shown > in OSMand with the right settings. > Now we have a mixture as people have changed the entry to upper case in > roughly 20% of the cases which is unfortunate as it impacts searching the > French street name entry by name. > > > Je t'invite à relire les règles de base de la contribution à OSM, et en > particulier celle-ci⁶. Nous cartographions les données telles qu'elles > doivent l'être, et certainement pas pour combler les limitations de tel > ou tel logiciel déficient dans sa manière de réutiliser les données d'OSM. > > 1 : > http://www.academie-francaise.fr/questions-de-langue#5_ > strong-em-accentuation-des-majuscules-em-strong > 2 : https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/117905 > 3 : http://bdl.oqlf.gouv.qc.ca/bdl/gabarit_bdl.asp?id=1438 > 4 : http://unicode.org/ > 5 : https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Multivalued_Keys > 6 : https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tagging_for_the_renderer > > Pierre > > > > _______________________________________________ > Talk-ca mailing list > Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca > > > _______________________________________________ > Talk-ca mailing list > Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca > >
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