Don't forget about the various alternative naming tags like alt_name=*
<https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:alt_name>, short_name=*
<https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:alt_name>, loc_name=*, and also
name:etymology=*
<https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:name:etymology> to make things
absolutely clear.
Having either spelling in one of these alternatives as appropriate would
likely satisfy any dissenters and make both the full and abbreviated
name searchable.
Nate Wessel
Jack of all trades, Master of Geography, PhD candidate in Urban Planning
NateWessel.com <http://natewessel.com>
On 3/15/19 12:58 PM, Martin Chalifoux via Talk-ca wrote:
The word is definitely Saint. St is a contraction and neither proper
English or French. It has the same Latin roots as sanctification and
similar words.
Similarly Av is a contraction for Avenue and not a word.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbreviation
On Mar 15, 2019, at 12:42, Jarek Piórkowski <ja...@piorkowski.ca
<mailto:ja...@piorkowski.ca>> wrote:
Hi all,
A couple of months back we established a consensus [1] that "St." in
Canadian English city names should not be expanded.
I have been thinking of having the same for street names, and would
like to ask people's opinions.
My main motivation is St. Clair Avenue in Toronto. Every city source I
could find and every street sign I saw in Mapillary says "St. Clair"
or "St Clair". The TTC stations and routes are consistently "St
Clair". The City uses "St. Clair Avenue West" in official documents
like [2]. Geobase in Toronto has "St Clair Avenue West" , "St Clarens
Avenue", and "St Helens Avenue". Currently most of the street is named
"Saint Clair Avenue West/East" in OpenStreetMap, but this is changed
for some parts of the road every now and then.
As a local mapper I would say that "St. Clair Avenue West" is the full
name. Unlike with "Av", "Ave", "W", the "St" in "St Clair" is IMO not
an abbreviation.
Across the Golden Horseshoe names starting with "St. " or "St " seem
to be a bit more common [3] than "Saint" [4], I gather the
acronym-expanders have not looked as much outside of Toronto.
Would we have Ontario community consensus for a statement along the
lines of:
"Where "St." or "St" is normally used in the full street name, it
should not be expanded to "Saint" even if pronounced so"?
(I don't know what the naming conventions are in other provinces, so I
focus on Ontario for now. Apologies for being Ontario-centric, but I
don't know of a better venue that is Ontario-specific. I'll post links
to this message in wiki talk pages for Ontario, WikiProject_Canada,
and Canadian_tagging_guidelines.)
As part of my checks I also looked at London UK, which I gather might
be the most-intensively-mapped English-speaking city. (Recommendations
for better-mapped English-speaking cities welcome). Searching for
"St." in road names [5], it has street names for bigger streets like
"St. John Street" and "St. Pancras Way"; [6] has name="St. Paul's
Road" + not:name="Saint Paul's Road" and has had so for 5 years.
Compare with searching for "Saint" [7] which also has some hits,
suggesting that both can be valid depending on what is signed and
used. (Or maybe it's just inconsistent.)
[1]
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Canadian_tagging_guidelines#Municipality_Names
[2]
https://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2016/ey/bgrd/backgroundfile-92339.pdf
[3] https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/H1M
[4] https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/H1P
[5] https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/GPh
[6] https://osm.org/way/230843467
[7] https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/GPi
Thanks,
--Jarek
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