In Ottawa, there were (and still are) cases where the signs do not
match the "official" name in the City of Ottawa database. Local
mappers will consider the signs as authoritative according to OSM
rules (what you see on the ground wins).
When I come across this situation I contact the City of Ottawa and
ask. I had a case where there were 3 different variations on the
signs for a single street, none of which the matched the city
database. Most times ended up with the case that the sign on the
street needing to be changed. Apparently the folks in the sign shop
recognize my name now...
Also I'm waiting for the MTO to update the highway signs to have the
correct spelling in a few cases.
On 2019-03-19 4:32 p.m., john whelan wrote:
Go back to Ottawa and from the discussion we had there in Ontario it
is the municipality that is the authority.
From memory years ago when OSM was mapped by cyclists taking photos
of street names what was on the sign post was deemed correct.
Unfortunately locally one street had three different signs that all
differed slightly.
Cheerio John
On Tue, Mar 19, 2019, 4:19 PM Tristan Anderson,
<andersontris...@hotmail.com <mailto:andersontris...@hotmail.com>>
wrote:
When in doubt, ask.
I posed this question to three Ontario municipalities. Red Lake
has told me either are acceptable, as has Amherstburg. However,
this is the response I got after emailing 3...@toronto.ca
<mailto:3...@toronto.ca>
Dear Tristan:
Street names displayed on signs and outlined in official
documents should match the authorized spelling of the road name.
For street names beginning with Saint, the abbreviated spelling
is correct.
Best regards,
John House
Supervisor, Land & Property Surveys
Engineering Support Services
Engineering & Construction Services
City of Toronto
Names in Openstreetmap may only be abbreviated if the expanded
version is incorrect. Where either are acceptable, the Saint
must be used. In general, an abbreviation in an official
document does not imply that the expanded version is incorrect;
it may just be used for convenience. I'm still not 100%
convinced that we should be using St even in Toronto (note that
John admits to it being an "abbreviated spelling") but I just
wanted to throw his response out there.
Tristan
From: Nate Wessel <bike...@gmail.com <mailto:bike...@gmail.com>>
Sent: March 15, 2019 1:42 PM
To: Jarek Piórkowski
Cc: talk-ca
Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] Saints in street names in Ontario
Interesting!
I didn't mean to imply that etymology should be decisive, but
that linking the name to the history of some beatified person
would help explain the origin of the 'St'... In this case,
seemingly supporting the abbreviation, but also referencing an
actual 'saint' or two at the same time.
I like Danny's suggestion of the pronunciation tag. That seems
like the most elegant solution if anyone knows IPA. I've always
wanted to learn it actually but haven't yet had a good enough
reason.
Nate Wessel
Jack of all trades, Master of Geography, PhD candidate in Urban
Planning
NateWessel.com
On 3/15/19 1:18 PM, Jarek Piórkowski wrote:
On Fri, 15 Mar 2019 at 13:02, Nate Wessel <bike...@gmail.com
<mailto:bike...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Don't forget about the various alternative naming tags like
alt_name=*, short_name=*, loc_name=*, and also name:etymology=*
to make things absolutely clear.
Having either spelling in one of these alternatives as
appropriate would likely satisfy any dissenters and make both
the full and abbreviated name searchable.
Certainly, but my message is to suggest that "St. Clair Avenue West"
_is_ the full name. We could set up an "expanded name" tag I
suppose?
Etymology wise, Wikipedia, citing (as far as I can tell) local
historians, suggests that St. Clair Avenue is named after Augustine
St. Clare, a character in Uncle Tom's Cabin, and the book spells the
last name "St. Clare", never expanded to "Saint".
In any case, suggesting etymology as being decisive for names
seems to
me problematic in many ways, especially in Canada where we've
adopted/mangled many names and phrases from other languages.
Thanks,
--Jarek
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