Are you looking for a general transit feed specification? :) Yves
Le 6 novembre 2018 20:22:18 GMT+01:00, djakk djakk <djakk.dj...@gmail.com> a écrit : >Ok I see. > >I am still a bit reluctant to your proposal since the travelling time >between 2 stops can vary during the day, especially for train routes. >Ok there is the possibility of adding a new timetable relation ... > >Moreover, I think that data inputs from the ground can not be done with >your proposal (it needs to know the timetable for the whole line), >we’ll >depend on GTFS file actually :-/ > >Julien “djakk” > > > >Le mar. 6 nov. 2018 à 19:27, Jo <winfi...@gmail.com> a écrit : > >> Yes, very hard to debug and we already established some change every >few >> months. So after a change from the operator. One traveler will update >one >> of those schedules, Another may do so for 3 stops down the line, in >the >> mean time the stops in between and after are not updated yet. A >maintenance >> nightmare. The way I proposed it, suffers less from that problem. >When >> timetables change it's usually that trips are added or removed or >their >> start time changes slightly. The time to get from one stop to the >next will >> remain constant, most of the time. >> >> Jo >> >> Op di 6 nov. 2018 om 18:40 schreef djakk djakk ><djakk.dj...@gmail.com>: >> >>> I don’t get it ... >>> >>> With my point of view, one route with 15 stops has 15 timetables, >each >>> timetable describes the arrival time and the departure time of >several >>> trips at the stop. >>> >>> There must be the same number of trips along the stops’ timetables. >>> (Otherwise this is an other route). >>> >>> You mean, if somebody messed up and add an extra trip inside a >timetable, >>> this would be hard to figure ? >>> >>> Julien “djakk” >>> >>> >>> Le mar. 6 nov. 2018 à 18:30, Jo <winfi...@gmail.com> a écrit : >>> >>>> If you have a single one for a stop/route pair, no problem. As soon >as >>>> you have a few hundred and the information in them starts to >conflict with >>>> other another timetable relation for the same route it will be >extremely >>>> hard to figure out where it went wrong. >>>> >>>> Polyglot >>>> >>>> Op di 6 nov. 2018 om 17:08 schreef djakk djakk ><djakk.dj...@gmail.com>: >>>> >>>>> In which case a timetable per stop and per route is unmaintable ? >>>>> >>>>> Julien “djakk” >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Le mar. 6 nov. 2018 à 16:59, djakk djakk <djakk.dj...@gmail.com> a >>>>> écrit : >>>>> >>>>>> I think it is important to have an osm object describing the >timetable >>>>>> user-oriented for simple editing without any tool. >>>>>> The mapper is at a bus stop, takes a picture of the timetable, >can >>>>>> import it later in osm without the need of any extra tool. >>>>>> Validator can be inside a tool. >>>>>> >>>>>> Julien « djakk » >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Le mar. 6 nov. 2018 à 16:46, djakk djakk <djakk.dj...@gmail.com> >a >>>>>> écrit : >>>>>> >>>>>>> Almost that ! Sometimes bus stops does not have their official >>>>>>> timetable, the user have to refer to the closest previous bus >stop having >>>>>>> an official timetable. So this kind of bus stop may not have a >timetable in >>>>>>> osm (except an osm mapper really wants to put it into osm, >knowing per >>>>>>> habits the schedule). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Julien « djakk » >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Le mar. 6 nov. 2018 à 16:28, Jo <winfi...@gmail.com> a écrit : >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You mean per stop/route pair? That's an incredible s amount of >>>>>>>> relations! It seems to me that it would be a nighmare to try >and maintain >>>>>>>> it that way. At first sight it seems simpler, but with the new >proposal i >>>>>>>> came up with, you can see how the stops of a variation in >itinerary tie >>>>>>>> together. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If the vehicle remains in the station longer, the roles could >become >>>>>>>> 00:30-00:35 instead of simply 00:35 for the departure offset to >the time >>>>>>>> the vehicle left at its first stop. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Seeing the stops in the timetable relation in the order they >are >>>>>>>> served also enables comparing this with the stops sequence in >the route >>>>>>>> relation they refer to, adding additional possibilities for >validation of >>>>>>>> the data. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The stops in a timetable sequence should always be a subset of >the >>>>>>>> stops in a route relation and appear in the same order. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Polyglot >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Op di 6 nov. 2018 om 16:07 schreef djakk djakk < >>>>>>>> djakk.dj...@gmail.com>: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I’ll agree with Leif, having a timetable relation per stop is >>>>>>>>> better. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Yes Leif, there can be a delay expressed in minutes instead of >an >>>>>>>>> arrival-departure pair of time. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Julien « djakk » >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Le mar. 6 nov. 2018 à 16:04, djakk djakk ><djakk.dj...@gmail.com> a >>>>>>>>> écrit : >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> In order to reduce the length of the value of the departures= >tag, >>>>>>>>>> should we allow this kind of abstraction level : >departures=5:35 ; 6:35 ; >>>>>>>>>> [7-19]:[05;35] ; 20:35 ; 21:35 ? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Julien « djakk » >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Le mar. 6 nov. 2018 à 15:41, djakk djakk ><djakk.dj...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>> a écrit : >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Martin, maybe locals do know their bus stop timetable, as >they >>>>>>>>>>> always use the service they may memorize the schedules ... ? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Julien >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Le lun. 5 nov. 2018 à 17:08, Jo <winfi...@gmail.com> a écrit >: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi Leif, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> You made me do it! :-) I sort of stole your proposal and >started >>>>>>>>>>>> creating a new one. It differs in rather important ways >from your proposal, >>>>>>>>>>>> so I preferred not modifying your wiki page. I also think >it's important to >>>>>>>>>>>> decouple the (voting for a) full timetable solution from >the solution where >>>>>>>>>>>> tags are added to indicate interval during 'opening_hours' >or a route, >>>>>>>>>>>> which is a lot more likely to be accepted. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> So here goes: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Public_transport_timetables >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Please let me know what you think. What I still haven't >figured >>>>>>>>>>>> out yet is how to differ weekdays that fall in school >holiday periods from >>>>>>>>>>>> "normal" weekdays. So work in progress. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Polyglot >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Op za 3 nov. 2018 om 16:25 schreef Leif Rasmussen < >>>>>>>>>>>> 354...@gmail.com>: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Polyglot: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I think that having a timetable relation for each stop is >less >>>>>>>>>>>>> complicated than having one per route. There are several >advantages to >>>>>>>>>>>>> this: >>>>>>>>>>>>> 1) People can easily add a single relation at a time, >rather >>>>>>>>>>>>> than having to do the entire line at one time. This could >make it much >>>>>>>>>>>>> easier to, for example, have a StreetComplete quest asking >"What are the >>>>>>>>>>>>> arrival times of bus X at this bus stop?" iD could also >have a field at >>>>>>>>>>>>> bus stops with "arrivals for each parent bus route" that >would allow people >>>>>>>>>>>>> to seamlessly create timetable relations. It also makes >more features >>>>>>>>>>>>> possible in the future, such as additional tags to each >timetable. >>>>>>>>>>>>> 2) The system is easier for newbies to learn to use. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The disadvantage is that there are now a ton of relations >per >>>>>>>>>>>>> bus / train / subway route. Creating these could made >easier by a new JOSM >>>>>>>>>>>>> plugin. Also, if someone wanted to delete all timetable >relations that are >>>>>>>>>>>>> part of a route, they could simply use this overpass query >to download the >>>>>>>>>>>>> data into JOSM and then delete all of the timetable >relations: >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/Dlf >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> If people really prefer a single timetable relation for >each >>>>>>>>>>>>> route, then I will go with that. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Julien: >>>>>>>>>>>>> Why not have a "delay"="<amount of time between arrival >and >>>>>>>>>>>>> departure at this platform>" tag instead of separate >arrivals/departures >>>>>>>>>>>>> tags? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>>>>>> Leif Rasmussen >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> Tagging mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>>> tagg...@openstreetmap.org >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> Tagging mailing list >>>>>>>>>>>> tagg...@openstreetmap.org >>>>>>>>>>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>
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