Frederik Ramm schrieb: >> Interestingly, your vineyard example is exactly working that way. YOU >> have decided that you want to have vineyards in the way you like it. YOU >> have implemented it into osmarender to be shown on the map. So in effect >> YOU "control how others do theirs" - by setting the "reference" how it's >> displayed on the map. >> > Well. Before there were no vineyards on the map. And the discussion > was rather dead. What do you expect me to do, start a vote or just do > it in a way that works and gets vineyards on the map Well, I'd expect you to start a vote just like anyone else and NOT "abuse your power position" as one of the persons who knows how to change the rendering rules.
This proposal was undecided because there were (at least) two parties, the "vineyard is sooooo important" and the "let's not get started with a pletora of landuse tags for all kinds of fruits". So you've decided you wanted vineyeards on the map and ignored the problems that this will raise with the landuse tag in the not so distant future. Benevolent dictators not always find the right decisions ... >> Maybe the reason you're one of the people raising the voice against >> voting is that it will reduce YOUR level of control over others?!? >> > Firstly, anyone could have taken the vineyard issue and done something > about it. Nobody did. You continously discourage people from voting and then complaining that nothing happens?!? > To me this is a clear indication of it not being > important enough for people to invest work - important enough to voice > an opinion (there are people with a lot of opinion to go around) but > not important enough to do something. It was important for me, and I > did something about it. This has nothing to do with control. Really? How many people have the knowledge to do it the way you did? This has nothing to do with control?!? It may not be your intention to control people but in fact you are doing so! > I hope > that everybody does the same. (And in the concrete vineyard example, > had anybody solved the issue before me, I'd surely have just used his > tags.) > > So your suspicion here is completely bogus. And you know that. > Sorry, but I'm still not convinced. However, it wasn't my intention to imply bad intentions here. >> The model "those who do the work get to decide how it's done" is just >> fine if you have a few developers - but it doesn't work perfectly if >> there are 20000+ mappers all doing "their" stuff. >> > But they aren't! There's the wiki, there are the mailing lists - you > all talk as if the moment we stop voting, people will suddenly do > whatever they like, on a whim, without spending a second of thought on > what others might perhaps do, Perhaps with the addition that the same topics are repeatedly discussed on the lists with different results depending on the season, the latest slashdot article and whatever else ... > whereas we now have voting which keeps > chaos at bay. Is that *really* what you believe, or just another > strawman you're setting up? > For me voting tries to find a path trough the jungle that the proposals and mailing list discussions had left behind over the last years. In the last year it was - by far - the most important way trying to reduce the chaos ... >> Interestingly, the tagwatch mechanism is in no way a substitution to >> voting. Tagwatch is only about tag syntax, voting is more about tag >> semantics. >> > Not VOTING is about tag semantics, DISCUSSION is. Voting is not about semantics?!? Are we talking about the same thing? > I'm all for > discussion. I just suggest leaving out the final stage of voting > because it has no relevance anyway. I understand if people see a > certain merit in a "closed discussion", if people want to "tick off" > issues and move on, but that doesn't work for us, at least not in this > early stage. Any argument why this won't work for us? Didn't you do it yourself exactly that way by "ticking it off" - your way? NOT making any decision will leave us only in endless and annoying discussions without any benefit for everyone. Regards, ULFL _______________________________________________ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/talk
