On 01/-10/-28163 09:59 PM, Andy Robinson wrote: Some feedback from local mappers regarding way's vs node's for the E/W parts of the city would be helpful here. Andy, first of all I think you could have been a little bit more responsive during all this time. You didn't even try to "get a statement" from us or understand our position, you just did nothing, not even responded to my emails. I am sorry if I was making too much noise for you, but I repeat that the DWG decision was very quick in the first place, and since it was temporary anyway then it was your responsibility as a mediator to see a resolution quickly as well. I personally don't care about the default rendering, but only about the usefulness of the data. I respect different points of view, but also expect from people to respect mine. So forgive me if I repeat myself, but I would like the following point of view (which is in fact an official point of view of Israel) be represented in the OSM database, so that this particular point of view can be rendered (by a custom renderer) easily, without making too much ad-hoc additions/removals of nodes or tags: Jerusalem (ירושלים), is a (self-proclaimed, like any other one) capital of the State of Israel, where the seats of the government branches reside (just like the definition of capital in Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_city). It is a municipal entity of type "city" with accordance to the division of the ministry of interior of Israel. Suggestion to remove "capital" and "city" from Hebrew Jerusalem therefore effectively "hides" this point of view, which is not just any arbitrary one but even supported by the fact that the city within its proclaimed boundaries is under full Israeli civilian control. I repeat, the only way, according to current OSM schema as I understand it, to represent the above point of view is a node in Hebrew, place=city, capital=yes, is_in=Israel. I would not oppose if anyone wishes to indicate the fact that the status of capital and/or city is not recognized by such and such international bodies (but see for example https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/is.html under section "Government") by adding appropriate tags to the above mentioned node (such as capital:recognized=no or recognized:un=no, recognized:usa=no, recognized:intl=no, recognized:world=no). But hey, for millions of Israelis who live in this country it is the capital, and there is no other one. As far as I care, Al-Quds in Arabic can be added as city, capital=yes, is_in whatever. I would not touch such a node and would not trick the default osm.org renderer to display the Hebrew one over it. The only thing which would be appropriate is to tag such a node with "capital:recognized=no" as well. In the future maybe someone who likes disputes would add a special "conflict" relation containing the two capitals, making it possible to render some default name instead of the two (or more) members of that relation. As to delineating east vs. west, I think it is not practical. Today there is no physical barrier, and there are Jews living in the east side (this is not a political statement but a fact). On the other hand, there is already the admin_level=2 way which runs along the "Green Line", practically it was the border until 1967 so no need to make another way coinciding with it. I believe that such a solution (two nodes and not three) will leave OSM as an open project, without making the impression that it takes sides or tries to force something on somebody. Since most of you apparently agree that both points of view are legitimate, it would only be fitting if OSM allowed both of them and not a "consensus" which is no consensus at all. Finally, I would like to express my admiration to all the work the OSM community has done over the years. Although in Israel there is not much awareness yet, I believe that in time we would learn to appreciate its huge potential to make the world better. Sincerely, Dmitry B.
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