On Fri, 22 Feb 2013 22:22:52 moltonel 3x Combo wrote: > On 22 February 2013 09:51, Peter Wendorff <wendo...@uni-paderborn.de> wrote: > > Am 21.02.2013 17:47, schrieb moltonel 3x Combo: > >> [...] > >> Besides, I actually think that adding the "redundant" name:XX tag is > >> actually simpler than modifying the code of many renderers to take > >> something completely new into account. On the other hand, it should be > >> very easy to check that "if a place has at least one name:xx tag, it > >> should also have one that matches the name tag" either inside the editor > >> or via a bot. > > > > Not sure about that. > > Up to know (as far as I know) some areas of the world decided to use a > > combination of two languages or name transcriptions in the name tag, like > > Japan [1] or Brussels [2]. A bot would contradict a working local > > community decision here, why I would oppose to automatically enforce that > > by a bot or to show that as en error by default. > > You're right, that's a false-positive right there. It could be fixed > by improving the heuristic, but I'm not sure it's worth the trouble. > JOSM users are used to ignore some types of validator warnings, and I > dare hope that any bot admin wouldn't let it run without carefull > checking. > > > This might change as soon as the most prominent/important osm maps like > > our mapnik rendering support setting the language like in Jochens > > Multilingual Map project, but up to then it's IMHO a bad idea to enforce > > tag wars in multilanguage areas due to "bugs" raised by some bot that > > tries to enforce a name:xx being equal to name. > > Looking forward to that, but it'll probably be a while before we have it ? > > But even if all renderers become multilingual, as long as there is a > plain "name" tag, there'll be arguments about which language to put in > it.
I have been thinking about this for a long time. I mostly map in Korea, where we have adopted the format name="Korean (English)" together with the separate parts in name:ko=* and name:en=*. In some places there are official signs with Chinese, Japanese and other languages too, which can be added in name:xx=*. Sometimes I think having multiple languages in name=* is a Good Thing, sometimes not. And if I was going to recommend something I think it has to have a simple and obvious rule. I now think it *is* a Good Thing, and here's why. I recently travelled to Laos. Laos has its own language (Lao), but for a time it was a French protectorate, and these days English is not uncommon. Many of the road signs in the capital, Vientiene, are written in Lao script and French. In another town I visited, Luang Prabang, they are written in Lao and English. Similarly, businesses are often signed in Lao and French or English. >From the point of view of a visitor, it would be very useful to me if OSM's Mapnik map was labelled with whatever is printed on the sign. Then, as I walk around, I can read the signs and see the same thing on my map. Even if I don't speak the language I can match the symbols. As a mapper, I can do this by setting name=* to whatever is on the sign (which may be Lao only, or Lao and another language). I can also tag name:lo and name:fr or name:en with the separate parts of the name taken from the sign. So, if I had to suggest an easy-to-follow set of rules for multilingual tagging I'd suggest the following: 1: name=* Whatever is written on the sign (with several languages if present) 2: name:xx=* Whatever is written on the sign in a single language. 3: name:xx=* can be added for any language even if it's not on the sign. I'd also add that it's okay to have redundant tags, i.e. in England the names are generally in English only, so name=* == name:en=*, but that it's also okay to omit this, i.e. renderer requests name:en=*, but it's not available, so name=* is returned. In Laos, I picked up a Japanese version of the Vientiene tourist map. Everything was labelled in katakana (a phonetic Japanese script). I wish we could just import it... Best wishes, Andrew PS I just wanted to add that I am using OSM exclusively now for all my local tourist activities. I use a guide book (or WikiVoyage) to tell me what's fun and interesting to do, and OSM to help me find it. If OSM is not good enough then I add more detail when I get there. Actually, I'd like to thank the Munich contributors for helping me find things in the city and get around very easily last time I was there. _______________________________________________ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
