W dniu 29.06.2018 o 11:39, Frederik Ramm pisze: > Hi, > > without going into the finer details, I'd like to offer an outsider's > view of OSM Carto development.
Thanks, Frederik! I lack such insights (we know our ideas inside the team quite well), so I appreciate your comments a lot. I would be happy to hear more voices of the OSM Carto users (not only developers) community. > But after a > while this small team has started milking the toolchain for all it's > got, and meanwhile the SQL queries are so complex that they threaten to > nullify any effort that has gone into making the style accessible to new > participants (or people who want to customise it). I believe this is mainly due to performance reasons which I mentioned. I would be happy to transform them into styling decisions (MSS files), but most probably that would hurt the hardware resources OSMF has. So this is what I take as a hard limit that can't be fixed. For me this is part of a deal to stay being default style - there is default deployment one has to consider. > So the ease of participating or customising has more or less already > gone down the drain; what's still good about OSM Carto is that at least > you can easily install it as-is on your own infrastructure (I regularly > do that for business clients), but I fear it is only a matter of time > until this aspect of usability, too, will be abandoned, and you will > have to run massive pre-computation jobs in order to even get your map > off the ground... I understand that is what you're afraid of, but I don't expect any of that. I like the simplicity and we're cautious even with external dependencies on pre-computed data. IIRC, there was no discussion about adding any new pre-requisites. > Personally speaking, the OSM Carto map has been good enough for me and > all my use cases for years now. If anything, I found the inflation of > icons and special cases a bit irritating. I would love it if OSM Carto > could be split into a "bread and butter" style that is easy to work > with, easy on the eye and easy to render, and a "cartography > navel-gazing" add-on where we show off how we can render different track > patterns depending on the pebble size. We could then offer both on > openstreetmap.org (where the bread-and-butter style would be the default). Personally lack of shop icons was the deciding factor that pulled me into developing OSM Carto... It's much easier to create small utility script that removes unwanted icons or turn them into simple dots than to add new icon (as you have noticed it might take months or even years). Maybe deployment community needs such customizing tools? As of now we have localization tool from German fork, but maybe "modders" could make more such tools. I would be all for creating such ecosystem. Feel free to contact me for details, I'm ready to help to bootstrap it. I also like the idea of simple and extended version, but I see two problems with that: 1. Where to draw the line and who would decide what is "standard" and what is "extra"? 2. It's again the hardware problem that is haunting us. If OSMF admins would be ready, I could have multiple OSM Carto versions already, for example with different languages. Of course anybody else could support OSMF or run their own environment, but the hardware requirements are quite heavy, and you already know it well: https://help.openstreetmap.org/questions/64405/tile-server-hardware-requirements What are your propositions regarding that? -- "My method is uncertain/ It's a mess but it's working" [F. Apple] _______________________________________________ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
