On 21/11/2020 10:42, Andre Hinrichs via talk wrote:
Hi!
Difficult to find, but here are the changesets where i left comments:
93965382
94097597
94134166
And the links to them:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/93965382
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/94097597
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/94134166
Andre
Hello,
A couple of points immediately spring to mind. Apologies to anyone on
this list who's seen me make these sort of points before, but sometimes
I think it bears repeating. I'll use your messages here as an example
but to be honest what I'm about to say applies to lots of inter-mapper
communication within OSM.
One is that you've left changeset comments in English, and here this
editor is editing in Finland with a "fi" locale, as you can see at the
changeset: https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/94134166 . The Åland
Islands (where this is) are actually Swedish speaking I believe, but the
mapper has edited in other places in Finland too, Not everyone in
Finland understands English - my impression (from when I used to work
there) was that many do, but plenty don't, and it often depends on the
job that someone does or how old they are whether they are likely to or not.
Another is that your three messages are fairly abrupt and by the second
and third have got capitalised words in them. Finnish as a language
never uses 3 words where 1 will do, so this contributor will be used to
terse communication, but you still need to communicate effectively.
Taking https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/93965382 as an example,
you've said that there is a problem with coastlines (but not said
exactly which OSM feature they edited it was), told them not to edit
coastlines again but then asked them to fix the problem. At the very
least the advice is self-contradictory.
The other two, https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/94097597 and
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/94134166 , are probably best
described as "shouting at someone in a foreign language"**, and are
unlikely to have the desired effect. Also, well-meaning changes aren't
"vandalism" - they may cause significant problems that need fixing, but
they're not vandalism.
What I'd suggest instead is:
* Write a longer initial changeset comment, as if you were
communicating with another human being for the first time (which of
course you are).
* Look at the context to see things like where this mapper is mapping
geographically, what language they are likely to understand, and how
long have they been mapping in OSM.
* Link to things that explain the problem - here perhaps
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Coastline#Tagging_coastlines_in_OSM
, one of the QA sites that show these sorts of problems and the
specific ways or relations in their changeset that caused the problem.
* Try and be consistent - if you say "you've broken X please don't
edit it again" then logically you must offer to fix X yourself;
alternatively you need to explain how they can fix X themselves,
since they clearly don't know how to, having caused the problem in
the first place.
* Also post your comment in a language that they are likely to
understand. An online translator such as translate.google.com won't
be perfect*, but at least it'll convert your message into words in a
language with which they are familiar.
* As has already been suggested, by all means do ask the DWG to deal
with it if you've tried to get in contact and communication isn't
occurring.
Best Regards,
Andy
* actually (having just tested it) translate.google.com does a
surprising good job of detecting cases in English and choosing the
correct word ending, which is how those are expressed in Finnish
** yes - I know - I'm English, and it is something that we are somewhat
renowned for.
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