On 6/30/05, Dwight A Corrin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Thursday, June 30, 2005, 1:23:46 PM, Kevin Menard wrote: > > > I'd urge you to look at the amount of list traffic. > > I see the list traffic. Lots of it is the same few people repeating > the same complaints over and over. And threads like this with miles of > handwringing and telling about how if they were in charge, things > would sure be different around here.
There's a difference between making a suggestion and saying "if I was in charge, I would do this". The former is constructive, the latter is not. Perhaps we're repeating the same complaints over and over because the same bugs keep resurfacing (which good regression testing would address) and because overly broad goals are stated that are never achieved. > > it does not appear to work well as a general purpose mail > > client > > You must live in a different world. Or you have never had to rely on > Outlook, or OE, or Pegasus, or Eudora. Making relative comparisons is a logical flaw. Something can suck, and just not suck as bad as the alternatives. That doesn't mean that it works well, it just means it works better than others. With that said, waiting minutes for it to refresh IMAP folders is ridiculous. Bring on OE or Pegasus or Eudora. If it can retrieve my mail in a timely manner and show the correct message (which TB! has a history of not doing), then I'd be tolerant of the mess that is TB! nowadays. > There have certainly been some bad decision making in making the betas > also be the currently released product, and if all this complaining > was among users on TBUDL they would have more room to complain, but > this is a beta list, and this is beta testing. Beta testing implies other testing has occurred. It is quite evident that is not the case. > > It's kind of ironic that right now all the complaining is about betas > which act like betas, when just a few weeks ago there was all this > complaining because there was no aggressive beta cycle going on. There > was so much begging that we got an alpha, then there was complaining > because the alpha had bugs and AVs. I wasn't part of that discussion, but I'd hardly say matters have improved much. Just a couple hours ago, we had two betas released back to back because the first one was broken. > Now we have a large contingent who want to redesign the whole process > because the people in Moldavia obviously don't have a clue about > anything. Out of all the areas of expertise mentioned or unmentioned > in this thread, I'd have to say that professionals in the areas > discussed often know more and can judge better than all the volunteer > experts. Who judges what makes a person an expert? Just because they produce the software doesn't make them experts. There are certainly plenty of software companies out there composed of junior programmers. Sure, it's a learning process, but operate in a closed world and you won't learn very much. RL needs to learn something from the current mess. I also wish you wouldn't put words into people's mouths. Where did anyone say that RL "obviously don't have a clue about anything"? I would honestly like to see such a quote, since I don't think inflammatory comments like that should be permitted on the list. > I would say that while I'm not a professional chef, I can judge when > food is palatable to me, when it has too much salt etc. Usually when > it isn't spicy (piquant) enough, it's way to hot for others to eat, > but my tongue still knows. Past that, however, I tend to defer to the > experts on lots of the technical matters. We can keep going down the analogy road . . . Say you order a steak, and it comes back uncooked. You might see some grill marks, but it's quite evident it hasn't been cooked. Presuming you've actually cooked before, and probably do so on a regular basis, you've got a pretty good idea what the problem is. Certainly you know what the symptoms are. Would you not then be equipped to pass judgement on the chef's process? Or do you really feel that all you can say is "this steak is too rare"? > Here in the states, you can always turn on a radio and find out lots > of better ways to run any team in any team sport, (except hockey since > they self-destructed :( ), who to trade, who to bench, etc. I'm sure > lots of those people would be able to straighten out TB! as well. Ahh, good old sarcasm. The best way to hold a civil discussion. -- Kevin ________________________________________________________ Current beta is 3.5.35 | 'Using TBBETA' information: http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html IMPORTANT: To register as a Beta tester, use this link first - http://www.ritlabs.com/en/partners/testers/
