Freddie wrote: “It is nice to know that NCKRI is in favor of recreational caving. Some cavers have actually told me that they thought NCKRI would become part of the federal govt. conglomerate and therefore limit or ban caving in some areas except for research purposes. I am sure that we will all be glad that your organization supports recreational caving. Thank you for clarifying this.”
I’m about to start a couple of weeks of travel and endless meetings, and I may be slow or unable to respond to messages for a while. But before I disappear I’m sending this message to clarify things about me and NCKRI. My message below was on my views and was not an official position by NCKRI. NCKRI hasn’t taken a position on the question of recreational caving. However, while I’m the Executive Director you can expect that my views will generally reflect the unofficial position of the Institute until either the positions are made formal, my Board of Directors says otherwise, or possibly when a new Executive Director takes my place (which I hope will be a long time off). As for NCKRI itself, it has a convoluted origin. It was initially an institute within the National Park Service, with matching funds from the State of New Mexico and a partnership with the City of Carlsbad to build its headquarters. For greater flexibility, in 2006 NCKRI was changed to a non-profit that is administered by the New Mexico Institute of Mining and Technology (aka New Mexico Tech). But we are a hybrid non-profit. We still answer to Congress and have federal funding so we are somewhat federal. We still get state funding and are state employees through New Mexico Tech, so we are somewhat state. Using its own money, plus state and federal money, the City of Carlsbad built our headquarters for us and that is our home. But we are still an independent non-profit. When I first got here in 2007 I was concerned about the proverbial “too many cooks that might spoil the soup.” Instead, it has been a beautiful partnership where NCKRI gains strength and opportunities through its partners in ways that regular non-profits couldn’t dream of, while being able to do things its partners can’t dream of because NCKRI is in fact a non-profit. When it comes to federal regulation of caves and karst, NCKRI has no authority. When we are invited to serve on committees and teams from the local to international level, governmental and private, unless one of those teams is given actually authority on an issue (which is rare), our role is just as an advisor. While I support recreational caving, I also support responsible caving. I know my Board, founding partners, and staff support me on this. There are times when certain activities in caves are not appropriate in certain situations. In those cases I’ll err on the side of protecting the cave. If the cave isn’t our priority, it won’t be available or available in a way where we can continue to enjoy it for recreation, science, or other purposes as we had before. I won’t discuss hypothetical situations or examples where NCKRI isn’t involved and doesn’t have all of the information firsthand. For NCKRI to do what it was created to do and in the most effective manner, NCKRI and its staff don’t need to get involved in personal or political conflicts and intrigues. If we are confronted with a situation where we must take a position, we will do it case-by-case, with as much firsthand information as possible, and after careful consideration of the many possible consequences. If anyone wants to know more about NCKRI, visit our website, www.nckri.org. For a more comprehensive overview and history, look in the “About NCKRI” tab and under the “Publications” menu you’ll find all of our annual reports available for viewing and download. If you want to discuss something directly with me, contact me off-list. I’ll be glad to visit with anyone, but it will have to be after June 7th. George *************************** George Veni, Ph.D. Executive Director National Cave and Karst Research Institute 400-1 Cascades Avenue Carlsbad, New Mexico 88220-6215 USA Office: 575-887-5517 Mobile: 210-863-5919 Fax: 575-887-5523 gv...@nckri.org www.nckri.org From: freddie poer [mailto:freddiepoe...@yahoo.com] Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2012 17:04 To: gv...@nckri.org Cc: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Past, Present, and Future of THE TEXAS CAVER - A Discussion It is nice to know that NCKRI is in favor of recreational caving. Some cavers have actually told me that they thought NCKRI would become part of the federal govt. conglomerate and therefore limit or ban caving in some areas except for research purposes. I am sure that we will all be glad that your organization supports recreational caving. Thank you for clarifying this. --- On Fri, 5/18/12, George Veni <gv...@nckri.org> wrote: From: George Veni <gv...@nckri.org> Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Past, Present, and Future of THE TEXAS CAVER - A Discussion To: "'freddie poer'" <freddiepoe...@yahoo.com> List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Friday, May 18, 2012, 1:06 PM Recreational caving is the backbone of all cave related activities. Cave science, cave management, making the public supportive and aware of the importance of caves, cannot be done without recreational caving. It provides the starting point where most cave scientists, managers, educators, etc., get the spark to pursue their careers. It is the basic training ground for those cavers who want to focus on mapping, photographing, diving, and doing so many other things in and related to caves. Caving organizations from the local to international levels understand this relationship and their charters include “cave exploration” (or related terms) as important a part of their structure as the other specialties. In my view, anyone who feels that one group of cavers is better than another is missing the big picture. The recreational caver who doesn’t survey, do restoration projects, or collect scientific data is still providing the integral service of visiting caves, reporting discoveries and changes, and caving with and thus training others who may decide to specialize their cave activities. Lastly, I prefer the term “recreational” caver to “sport” caver. The latter implies competitions and game-type activities that are, if not reckless in a cave, then certainly have the potential to harm caves. “Recreational” caver is better but not perfect. I love doing science, exploration, survey, photography, restoration, training, and visiting caves with no other purpose than to enjoy being there. And I find it all “recreational.” George *************************** George Veni, Ph.D. Executive Director National Cave and Karst Research Institute 400-1 Cascades Avenue Carlsbad, New Mexico 88220-6215 USA Office: 575-887-5517 Mobile: 210-863-5919 Fax: 575-887-5523 gv...@nckri.org www.nckri.org From: freddie poer [mailto:freddiepoe...@yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2012 13:28 To: gv...@nckri.org Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Past, Present, and Future of THE TEXAS CAVER - A Discussion Does this mean that you are in favor of sport caving? --- On Thu, 5/17/12, George Veni <gv...@nckri.org <http://us.mc451.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=gv...@nckri.org> > wrote: From: George Veni <gv...@nckri.org <http://us.mc451.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=gv...@nckri.org> > Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Past, Present, and Future of THE TEXAS CAVER - A Discussion To: "'Texas Cavers'" <Texascavers@texascavers.com <http://us.mc451.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Texascavers@texascavers.com> > List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Thursday, May 17, 2012, 10:06 AM Reading this e-mail exchange and the perceived focus on too many science articles in the TC made me think that I didn’t recall any recent science articles. So I took a quick at the table of contents for the last nine issues through the start of 2010 and found a total of 60 articles listed. I found an abundance of reports on surveys, projects, and generally lots of “fun” (non-project/non-survey/non-sciency) caving Texas cavers are doing in Texas, with a small number of reports on caving in Mexico. I found reports on TCRs, TSA conventions, equipment reports, and news I expect most cavers would be interested in. I only found one article that could be classified as “science,” a nice 1-page report by Jerry Atkinson and Butch Fralia on bad air in Texas caves. Considering how many Texas caves have bad air, I’d also expect this would be of interest to most cavers who generally aren’t interested in science articles. So for at least for the past two years, the TC has had a nice mix of articles with no bias toward science. As I also skimmed through these articles, I was impressed with the great quality of caving, maps, reporting, and information provided by Texas cavers, and Mark’s skills at coaxing the articles and photos and providing them to us in a beautiful format. It has always been necessary for TC editors to arm-twist articles from cavers. And there are always cycles where minimal twisting is needed and times like now where tons of pressure produces little result. I deeply appreciate Mark’s efforts and those of past editors. It is not an easy job. In hopes that it helps Mark at least a little, here are two thoughts that might get some of you to send in material. 1) If you are organizing a trip or project, the cave owner or manager may want a trip report. Sometimes they don’t ask for one, but to maintain access to the cave many cavers will often send an occasional trip report or summary of trips. If you do this, and the owner doesn’t object, send a copy of the TC. 2) If you a new caver and think us old timers aren’t interested in what you’re doing, you’re wrong. When I started caving, I had a tough time getting on trips and the attention of some of the big-time cavers. I soon discovered that after I started sending reports to the TC, I was suddenly welcomed by many cavers and onto trips and projects. I’ve seen this happen over and over with many other cavers since then. Publishing articles in the TC shows people what you’re doing, that you in fact know what you’re doing as a skilled and responsible caver, and increases their confidence and desire to spend time with you and to invite you on trips. It doesn’t happen overnight, but it does start to happen after a few articles. Again, my thanks to Mark for his excellent work on the TC. George
