One of the biggest expenses of a TSA Convention is the absolute
requirement of a large enough building to hold talks and to also have
room for the Photo and Map Salons. The building needs to be covered
from the elements and needs to be dark enough so that people can see a
PowerPoint presentation. It also needs to have sufficient electrical
outlets...and many people clamor for air conditioning (though I think
that in April in Texas that's not absolutely necessary, but others
would disagree).
Recently we've had a group of cavers that enjoy cooking dinner on
Saturday night. So now you also need a building that also has kitchen
facilities.
Add to this the requirement of two nights camping, plus restroom
facilities and parking spots.
Preston, when was the last time you checked on how much it costs to
rent such a facility for two days? It's not cheap, and only about
100-120 people show up at the TSA Convention, so you do not have the
same economies of scale as TCR (typical attendance of 300+).
Diana
On Dec 2, 2009, at 4:02 PM, Preston Forsythe wrote:
Doesn't some caver own a field surrounded by a few trees? How big
does it have to be? Three acres? Five acres would easily do it.
I went to one of the events a few years ago in April, it was west of
San Marcos. Cost more than it should for only 2 or 3 days and I
frankly do not know why? Everyone camped in a field of less than 2
acres. There was "one" ordinary KY style outhouse, certainly nothing
fancy. And, there was a plain small 30 x 40 ft. building for
presentations on Sat. I think all of that, including one meal, cost
at least a thousand, maybe two thou. It fact a hat had to be passed
around to break even. On Sunday the conservation meetings were
conducted outside. What did we pay for except a place to park our
vehicle?
Ediger, Ernie, Don or Raines, and others, I thought had several
acres which could work, and they are centrally located in the state.
I have never understood why one of those events should cost $40-50
for two people for only 2 to 2 1/2 days.
Preston
-----------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: Denise P
To: TexasCavers
Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 3:43 PM
Subject: RE: [Texascavers] 2010 TSA Spring Convention related
True.
I also suggested Flat Creek Ranch to Ellie. Might work.
Cheers,
Denise
Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 21:34:49 +0000
From: jran...@gmail.com
To: texascavers@texascavers.com
Subject: Re: Re: [Texascavers] 2010 TSA Spring Convention related
Having helped host far too many of these things my advice for Ellie
was that she needed to do whatever worked best for her. If it meets
her budget, her travel constraints, her whims etc than it is the
right place. No matter what, someone will be unhappy.
By and far the biggest issue for spring convention has been finding
an affordable site that meets all our needs. Colorado Bend typically
would love for us to have functions there but the ceiling in the
conference room is a bit low for presentations and close camping is
problematic. CWAN is in a good location but has no potable water,
dry weather only camping and we would have to work around the tours
in the cave. Most of us loath the thought of going back to Kerrville
after the bout of Irritable Caver Syndrome that hit us this summer.
Sonora was fun but it is way the hell out in, well, Sonora! Cascade
Caverns was pretty good but it required a ton of prep work and you
might get shot. Albert cost us a small fortune. Burnett was fun but
the divided camping and talks upset folks. I could go on and on.
We will have convention where ever Ellie finally finds a spot that
works! If you don't like it run for TSA VP.
Joe
On Dec 2, 2009 3:26pm, Diana Tomchick <diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu
> wrote:
> Stefan,
>
>
>
> Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose...sometimes the people in
West Texas have to drive a long ways, sometimes the people in
Houston have a long drive.
>
>
>
> Those of us in North Texas *always* have a long drive.
>
>
>
> If you're really a dedicated caver and enjoy going to the TSA
Convention, you find a way to get there.
>
>
>
> Diana
>
>
>
> On Dec 2, 2009, at 2:05 PM, Stefan Creaser wrote:
>
>
>
>
> The biggest problem David is that it's over near Houston (I
>
> think that's what you said). That's a *long* way from the
>
> center of Texas, why would the people from West Texas want
>
> to drive all the way to East Texas?
>
>
>
> Also, you have to consider the cooks (I would say that...) we
>
> don't really want to cook under a tarp, some form of kitchen
>
> would be a lot nicer for the food we usually provide).
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Stefan
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: David [mailto:dlocklea...@gmail.com]
>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 1:53 PM
>
> To: Cavers Texas
>
> Subject: [Texascavers] 2010 TSA Spring Convention related
>
>
>
> Yesterday, I posted a note about a potential
>
> site to hold the 2010 TSA Spring Convention.
>
>
>
> I would like to make a motion that this camp be on
>
> the list of tentative sites proposed for a spring convention.
>
>
>
> I sent an e-mail to the manager the camp
>
> to see if his e-mail was still good and if he was still in charge.
>
> He immediately replied, and said he would mention
>
> it to the committee that controls this camp.
>
>
>
> I bet this place would be inexpensive compared to
>
> other choices that were mentioned.
>
>
>
> This place does not have any karst or any of the
>
> scenery of the Texas Hill Country. However, it
>
> is out in the sticks.
>
>
>
> Camp Happy Hollow ( CHH ) is more primitive and smaller, than the
>
> John Knox Ranch Camp that the event has been
>
> held at before.
>
>
>
> I think there would be no shortage of places to rig a hammock.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I am guessing Camp Happy Hollow would cost at least $ 600
>
> for the 3 day weekend.
>
>
>
> The camp committee may say they are not interested. If that
>
> happens, then maybe TSA could offer $ 800 or more, as
>
> I imagine they are too cash-strapped for renovation.
>
>
>
> Portable facilities could be erected if necessary, like the big tarp
>
> with the Oztotl logo.
>
>
>
> I am NOT trying to side step the procedures. I am only trying to
>
> see what interest is out there for holding the event at CHH. If
>
> the motion fails, I am not going to lose any sleep or get
>
> my feelings hurt.
>
>
>
> David Locklear
>
>
>
>
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> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
>
> Diana R. Tomchick
>
> Associate Professor
>
> University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center
>
> Department of Biochemistry
>
> 5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
>
> Rm. ND10.214B
>
> Dallas, TX 75390-8816, U.S.A.
>
> Email: diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu
>
> 214-645-6383 (phone)
>
> 214-645-6353 (fax)
>
>
>
>
>
>
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* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Diana R. Tomchick
Associate Professor
University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center
Department of Biochemistry
5323 Harry Hines Blvd.
Rm. ND10.214B
Dallas, TX 75390-8816, U.S.A.
Email: diana.tomch...@utsouthwestern.edu
214-645-6383 (phone)
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