Rajaram Sir, I thank you for elevating my personal contemplations,not based on any authoritative text in Psychology,but just my armchair write up,like all other write ups of mine,to your ultimate High Brow discourse.My write ups are my own completely and they cannot match the researched texts of the subject Psychology.You,of course are a great prodigy,and I am lucky to have come into contact with you. YM
On Mon, Jun 19, 2023 at 12:28 PM Rajaram Krishnamurthy < [email protected]> wrote: > Wrt YM ji's fear 15623 and my additions of thirukkural anjuvathu anjamai > pethamai, 2 different thought processes are given. Mr Ramanth said instead > of writing in 3 lines, so much on fera; but Mr Ramanath did not write those > 3 lines at all and as usual, cryp[tically , written without any objective > purpose. Our N had spoken something as,"Dear folks Agree completely with > Sri Ramnath V. Fear occurs only through ignorance of the object feared. > The cure is to learn all about the object and thus overcome the fear > through knowledge." This is partly a good one though, never sited how and > where to observe the cause of fear? By agreeing with Mr Ramanth, he went > down in thought process, as never even said what are those > preventive reasonableness is. And , both had not not rebutted the > Tirukkural also. A supposition: Lion or Tiger is in front within a short > distance; both will now think what is that object?; it is a lion; and what > lion will do?; it may pounce; it may say Hello and go off; or it may eat > him or him. Then without fear, if they stand there, they would be dead; if > they run it can run faster than them and kill. If they climb trees, some > animals can climb trees also. Who knows a python may be on that tree also. > And after deeply thinking , having ascertained that the lion is sure to > attack, will they have no fear at all? Lion may do it in 3 hits or even > less than 3 lines to suck the blood. > 2 The point of objective is correct; fear is the normal thing for > any species. But just because it is natural does not mean it is essential > for living. We fear things we do not understand. What we cannot understand > we must try to understand. We can never fear the known – fear is always > about the unknown. Fear is an emotion. It is born of the mind owing to > various circumstances; it often leads us to miserable conditions. Nobody > has ever suffered for the want of fear. If you care to disagree, or desire > to suggest that “certain fears are good,” then probably you are confusing a > Threat with Fear. So the threat might increase the adrenaline or fear, > because knowing certain death or unknown emotions could kindle any enzymes. > What is said here is from the artha sastra where the King is advised by > Chanakya, who has all the forces around him to protect him; and *Artha > Shastra *clearly states that “Fear is the sign of Ignorance*,*” and also, > that “A leader with fear is bound to self-destruct, whereas a Leader > without fear is bound to overcome all challenges.”. So an ordinary human > being is not a king. So what Artha sastra says may not be applicable to a > man facing the lion right on face. In the Vedic approach to Politics or > *Rajaneeti *fear is recommended as the tool for making people abide by > the law of the land. But a ruler is asked to “transcend all fears before > even desiring position of power.”The power is defined as *Shakti *in *Artha > Shastra*. A person deserving of power is called *Shakta. *According to > *Shukracharya *in* Shukra Neeti *“A person with fear is *Ashakta* (i.e. a > person undeserving of power.)” > *Bharadwaja, *one of the pioneers of *Kootaneeti *explains “A > *Shakti *can be attained and retained only through *Samarthya *(qualities > of deservingness).” *Samarthya *is a Vedic *Sanskrit *word made of two > words, namely *Sama *or *Balanced *and *Artha *or *Meaningful Wealth. * > The *Artha *is made possible primarily by two aspects – *Gyana *or > *Knowledge* and *Vigyana *or *Wisdom. *According to *Bhartrihari *it is > extremely easy to spot a person without *Knowledge *and *Wisdom. *“A > person without knowledge and wisdom,” he declares, “is ever fearful.” He > even suggests “It is owing to fear that people generate *lust, anger, > greed, infatuation, ego *and *envy.* Therefore, a person who is unable to > check these *Arishadvargas *(or six detrimental qualities) are *Ashaktas * > or *Undeserving of Power.*” Given these depths of wisdom on *Bhayam *or > Fear, how are we to conquer or even transcend fear? Is it even possible? > If you think you fear a person even though you know that person, > think again. You fear that person because you consider that person to > possess some power to hurt you, but you do not understand as to how to > get back at that person. If you know a person inside out, you will > certainly not fear him. The beauty of nature is such that it creates > everything with a set of strengths and weaknesses. Knowledge helps us to > understand that. Then, as long as you take time to understand > him/her/it/they, will you not fear? All your knowledge and wisdom do not > help you as an individual caught in flood(1918 Kerala) , caught in a > quagmire, in front of a lion,virtual unemployment with a big family to > support , debtors pulling out your wife and dresses to put you into shame. > Fear may not solve the problem. But when you don't fear at that juncture > where the escape route is sealed, the best Chanakya also must fear and > cannot be thinking where, the easy solution is not available. > Let's consider the ongoing global economic crisis resulting > from the pandemic. A great many people are losing jobs, entrepreneurs are > struggling to keep their companies afloat, politicians are scrambling to > hold on to power, financial institutions are ailing and aiming to reduce > their burden, and billionaires are trying to hold on to their billions. > Amid this chaos, we are seeing only two sorts of predictable responses, > namely: Fight or Flight. But to fight is being courageous and to flight is > being out of fear, over the impending threat. So where the mind is without > fear is perfect when the serenity exists; but where the time is less, fear > must mount. If a woman would be accused of bad relations , even if she is > not, she must act in such a manner, out of THAT fear, to save herself. > Anjuvathu anjamai pethamai. > > This is what we learn from the Bhagavadgita. When you live for > someone you love deeply or for a great cause, your fear and > > anxiety go away. Think of a mother, who prepares food for her child or a > person who dies for his country, or someone who wants to save > > the planet of the animals. Dian Fossey lived her life and died trying to > save the primates in Africa. Did she live in vain? Therefore, here is > > a formula for your personal and spiritual liberation, live for someone or > something you can die for. We are subject to many fears. Fear is the > most dominant emotion of our minds, which manifests in our lives in many > ways. For example, we are afraid of many things, including > > cockroaches, lizards and bats. Fear of failure, fear of rejection, fear > of loss are some of the most common fears we experience, which > > prevent us from venturing out of our comfort zones and taking risks. > Because of fear many people settle for less. Their dreams remain > > dreams, as they sabotage their own success by indulging in > self-destructive actions. Fear is also a major emotion we deal with when we > > start a new project or a business as we are overwhelmed with doubts and > questions about our abilities and the results of our actions and > > decisions. The Bhagavadgita goes to the root of this problem and tries > to address it on a lasting basis. It gives you a formula by which > > you can live without fear and experience peace and equanimity. Even in > the midst of war Krishna says not to fear because it is not the > > lakshan of a kshatriya, meaning rest would fear. And as alast resort, > kshatriya will only be killed and reach swarga. So fear is a subjective > > emotion where it has to be, must be abided by fear. > > நாம் அஞ்ச வேண்டிய (செயல்கள், காலம், மனிதர்கள்) விசயங்களுக்கு > அஞ்சாமல் இருப்பது மடத்தனம் ஆகும். அறிவற்றவர்களே அவ்வாறு செய்வார்கள். அதே > சமயம் எதைக் கண்டு அஞ்ச வேண்டும் அதைக் கண்டு அஞ்சி அதற்குத் தகுந்தாற் > போன்று நடப்பது அறிவுள்ளவர்கள் செய்யும் செயல் ஆகும் . நுணுக்கமாக > சிந்தித்தால், இதை இரு வகையாக அர்த்தம் கொள்ளலாம். முதலாவதாக, நாம் பழி > மற்றும் பாவங்களை தரக் கூடிய செயல்களை கண்டு அஞ்சி ஒதுங்கி இருப்பது இருப்பது > நன்று. அவ்வாறு அஞ்சவேண்டியவற்றை கண்டு அஞ்சாமல் இருப்பது மடமை என பொருள் > கொள்ளலாம். அல்லது இரண்டாவதாக, உண்மையிலேயே யதார்த்ததிலே பயப்பட வேண்டிய > இடங்களிலே பயப்படாமல் நடக்க முயல்வது அறிவற்ற செயல் எனவும் கருதலாம். > உதாரணமாக நடு இரவில், தனிமையில் நிறைய பொருள் அல்லது நகையுடன் செல்வது, அஞ்ச > வேண்டிய(திருடர்களுக்கு) செயல். அதற்கு அஞ்சாமல், மூடத்தனமாக நடப்போம். > அதனால் அதற்கான விளைவுகளை சந்தித்தே தீர வேண்டி வரும். மேலும், செய்யவேண்டிய > செயல்களை காலம் கடத்துவது தீய விளைவுகளை விளைவுக்கும் பெரியோரும் இகழுவர் > என்பதனை நினைத்து அஞ்சாமல் இருப்பது மடமையாகும். அதாவது செயல்களை / கடமையை > காலம் தாழத்துவது மடமையாகும். ”*குறள்* *36 **அன்றறிவாம்* *என்னாது* > *அறஞ்செய்க* *மற்றது* *பொன்றுங்கால்* *பொன்றாத்* *துணை* > <https://dailyprojectthirukkural.blogspot.com/2016/06/kural36.html>” > என்பதை நினைவில் கொள்க. அதே போல், படிக்கும் காலங்களில், ஆசிரியர்க்கு > பயந்து நடப்பது, சிறு வயதில் பெற்றோருக்கு பயந்து நடப்பது, கடவுளுக்கு பயந்து > நடப்பது போன்றவற்றை, நல்ல விஷயங்கள், அஞ்ச வேண்டிய விஷயங்கள் எனக் கூறலாம். > எனக்கு மிகவும் பிடித்த ஒரு ஆங்கில மொழியை இக்குறள் நினைவு படுத்துகிறது. "The > fear of the Lord is the beginning of Wisdom" > > It is unnatural to be natural in an unnatural situation. A > normal human being gets agitated when circumstances become abnormal. > Similarly, if a person is not afraid of things to be afraid, he is > considered ignorant. We need to be cautious of things or events that bring > negative consequences. Real knowledge is to be afraid of what is to be > afraid. Knowledgeable people can differentiate between what is to be feared > and what is not to be feared and act accordingly, assures Kural 428. > > Not to fear what should be feared is > > The wise know better. > > If one is not scared (i.e. not having fear) about things that ought to be > scared/feared (for e.g., not scared of not doing work, time, people, not > scared of bad/evil things) then that will be considered as stupidity. Only > brainless people will do that. Knowledgeable people will know what to be > afraid of and what not to be afraid of. One needs to be cautious of things > or events that bring negative consequences. We have learnt before that > fear is not a good thing. However, here the context is fear about not > doing. Because being idle, procrastinating is not healthy, productive and > good. Hence, one has to fear such a condition. Also, one has to fear about > sin, bad consequences etc. If one is not scared of negative consequences, > then they will take things for granted and it can lead to catastrophes, > destruction, failures, loss of life/money etc which cannot be reversed or > will take a lot of time, effort and money to rebuild. > > Can anyone understand in 3 lines, when someone is stating we have > to analyse in front of the unknown, without even being able to cognise. In > the USA yesterday someone reported a 10 feet tall object reported by the > resident who ran away from that place; Can an ordinary person be standing > before that unknown and keep analysing to understand however learnt he is? > K Rajaram IRS 19 6 23 > > On Sun, 18 Jun 2023 at 20:40, 'Shankar Narayanaswamy' via KeralaIyers < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> Dear folks >> >> Agree completely with Sri Ramnath V. >> >> Fear occurs only through ignorance of the object feared. The cure is to >> learn all about the object and thus overcome the fear through knowledge. >> >> S Narayanaswamy Iyer >> >> On 16 Jun 2023, at 10:20 PM, Ramnath V <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Hopeless write up! What one could write in three lines, the details are >> useless. >> >> On Thu, 15 Jun 2023, 06:52 'gopala krishnan' via KeralaIyers, < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Excellent write up sir >>> Gopalakrishnan >>> >>> On Thursday, 15 June, 2023 at 06:29:13 am IST, Markendeya Yeddanapudi < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> *Mar** Fear* >>> >>> *Chronic fear is belief in failure. Most of us do not live in the >>> present. We spend time introspecting. When we experience failure, it gnaws, >>> we live retrospectively continuing the failure. We disable ourselves from >>> living in the present.* >>> >>> *The internal communication system between and among the cells is the >>> hormonal system. A hormone is simply the instruction from the brain to the >>> cell to act in a particular way. When the brain cannot free itself from the >>> memory of past failures, it automatically tells the cells that there is >>> failure looming large and fear takes over. The fear ultimately becomes >>> automatic reflex and it gets embedded as the repression. In repression, you >>> cannot know why you are fearing or acting in a cowardly manner, because the >>> repressed cause hides in the sub-conscious, and plays mischief without >>> being caught. But it devastates your very capacity to live in the present. >>> The negativism in the hormonal communication system becomes auto- matic.You >>> develop the fear response as an automatic reflex--- the flight or avoidance >>> or procrastination or chronic postponement response. It is the chronic >>> inability of self control.* >>> >>> *It is a situation where your body does not obey your command. When >>> someone beats you, you want to beat back, but to your horror and shame you >>> find that you are shivering and running away. And you do not know why you >>> are acting like the coward, though you don’t want to be a coward. The >>> hormones no longer wait for fresh orders, they have standing instructions.* >>> >>> *If you want to remove the fear, it will be good, if you can actually >>> catch the culprit hiding within you as a repressed criminal. By going to a >>> good Psycho analyst you may be able to bring out the repressed or hiding >>> cause and deliberately not allow it to do the mischief. You tell very >>> vehemently your hormonal system to stop sending the fear generating >>> hormones. You have to watch yourself and deliberately suppress the mischief >>> of the hitherto unconscious memory.* >>> >>> *Then you have to practise self control through yoga. Here yoga means >>> not only the health giving and other asanas but also repeatedly telling >>> yourself some success mantra devised by you.* >>> >>> *That mantra must trigger the helping hormone or the positive hormones. >>> Then you have to practise living in the present only. When you live in the >>> present, you face problems instead of using the usual avoidance tricks like >>> postponement or depressed surrender. You can live in the present and face >>> the problems only when you believe in yourself and approve yourself. Do >>> good things that get you certificate from yourself. Also give good >>> certificates automatically where you find really good deeds, an >>> appreciation is always appreciated and it helps your own positive hormonal >>> system.* >>> >>> *You have to stop living retrospectively if you are suffering from >>> failures. Experience and analysis never happen at the same time. All >>> analysis is post mortem.* >>> >>> *If you ask me whether there is God, I automatically tell that there is >>> God. Who is that God? In your case it is yourself. Make it a point to adore >>> and show your bhakthi to your personal God—yourself. If you pray to him/her >>> show your devotion and absolute belief, He/She will give whatever you want. >>> So my dear God, start.* >>> >>> *Actually you do not experience any fear when the thing you fear is >>> happening. Only you start fearing after remembering the event. Then you >>> start dreading. Concentrate only on the objective or if possible on a >>> mission you select, there are always barking dogs, and dogs bite only when >>> you show fear, no dog attacks when it finds that you are courageous. >>> Courage building is a lifelong affair; you have to continuously practice >>> it, till it gets part of your internal hormonal communication.* >>> >>> *COURAGE IS NOT UNTHINKINGLY AND BRUTALLY BEATING SOMEONE.IT >>> <http://SOMEONE.IT> IS THE OUTCOME OF THE CHRONIC ABSENCE OF SELF >>> CONTROL....ACTUALLY CHRONIC FEAR, A BULLY CAN BE TAMED VERY EASILY.* >>> >>> *The best method of building courage, self confidence, and self >>> esteem..., is to take up a mission that gives real help and happiness to >>> many. Every small bit of success gives you an enormous dividend of self >>> esteem. A Gautama Buddha or Ramana Maharshi never shouted or ranted or >>> smirked happily at others problems. They tried to help. They understood >>> sincere missions. But Hitlers always rave and rant and Hitler never had the >>> courage to personally visit an extermination camp and ultimately committed >>> suicide, because he was so definite that he could not answer, so much of >>> embedded fear and self contempt in reality.* >>> >>> *YM* >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> On Facebook, please join >>> https://www.facebook.com/groups/keralaiyerstrust >>> >>> We are now on Telegram Mobile App also, please join >>> >>> Pattars/Kerala Iyers Discussions: https://t.me/PattarsGroup >>> >>> Kerala Iyers Trust Decisions only posts : https://t.me/KeralaIyersTrust >>> >>> Kerala Iyers Trust Group for Discussions: >>> https://t.me/KeralaIyersTrustGroup >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "KeralaIyers" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/keralaiyers/806848984.39204.1686792150824%40mail.yahoo.com >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/keralaiyers/806848984.39204.1686792150824%40mail.yahoo.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >> -- >> On Facebook, please join https://www.facebook.com/groups/keralaiyerstrust >> >> We are now on Telegram Mobile App also, please join >> >> Pattars/Kerala Iyers Discussions: https://t.me/PattarsGroup >> >> Kerala Iyers Trust Decisions only posts : https://t.me/KeralaIyersTrust >> >> Kerala Iyers Trust Group for Discussions: >> https://t.me/KeralaIyersTrustGroup >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "KeralaIyers" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/keralaiyers/CAKmMQ1YMR2mbQhaCv_EGzj0chFCaALNAHQyohw4njZj8pcaD0g%40mail.gmail.com >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/keralaiyers/CAKmMQ1YMR2mbQhaCv_EGzj0chFCaALNAHQyohw4njZj8pcaD0g%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> >> -- >> On Facebook, please join https://www.facebook.com/groups/keralaiyerstrust >> >> We are now on Telegram Mobile App also, please join >> >> Pattars/Kerala Iyers Discussions: https://t.me/PattarsGroup >> >> Kerala Iyers Trust Decisions only posts : https://t.me/KeralaIyersTrust >> >> Kerala Iyers Trust Group for Discussions: >> https://t.me/KeralaIyersTrustGroup >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "KeralaIyers" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/keralaiyers/45432474-59A8-487E-ADCA-21E30210A18F%40yahoo.com >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/keralaiyers/45432474-59A8-487E-ADCA-21E30210A18F%40yahoo.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > -- *Mar* -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Thatha_Patty" group. 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