Hi ….. and of course, once you go into saturation the mixer doesn't look much like 50 ohms any more. Sort of gets us back to terminations again.
Bob On Sep 9, 2012, at 6:21 PM, Bruce Griffiths <bruce.griffi...@xtra.co.nz> wrote: > NIST have indicated that mixer PN noise measurements with a non dissipative > terminations (even RF) are intended to be made. > > Using a discrete mixer using diode connected transistors may also be useful > at least for 5MHz and 10MHz input frequencies in that their flicker noise can > be significantly lower than for mixers using diodes. NIST used a simple > diplexer arrangement that terminates the RF sum frequency in 50 ohms whilst > using a reactive termination for the difference frequency. > With such a termination the minicircuits phase detectors had lower measured > PN noise than the 10514. > > Another issue to consider is saturated or unsaturated (linear) operation of > the mixer. > Saturated operation, for most mixers, produces lower noise (flicker and > floor) however linear operation can have for some mixers lower phase shift > tempco which can be important depending on the environment and required phase > shift stability. > > Bruce > > Bob Camp wrote: >> Hi >> >> In general, you terminate the mixer in 50 ohms at the RF frequencies (say 10 >> and 20 MHz). Termination at the "IF" (in this case audio) frequencies is >> what turns out to be tricky. Any time you terminate a source in a high >> impedance, you get a higher output voltage. Reactance rarely adds noise to a >> termination. With a DMTD, slew rate is the issue, generally mixer noise goes >> up less than the slew rate increases with a "non-50 ohm" termination. >> >> Bob >> >> >> >> On Sep 9, 2012, at 4:41 PM, Bruce Griffiths<bruce.griffi...@xtra.co.nz> >> wrote: >> >> >>> David Kirkby wrote: >>> >>>> On 9 September 2012 18:28, Pascual Arbona<p.arb...@securimar.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Hello Brian, >>>>> I am a radio amateur and and also in the Time nuts list, At >>>>> the moment I am planning to bild a DMTD for experimentation. and as you >>>>> have a nice experience in this field , for me will be very wellcame your >>>>> help. My ask is ¿whitch is te best temination for the mixer? (FI 10Hz or >>>>> 100Hz) ¿what about the amp, limiters and zero crosing detec.) >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Mixers should be terminated in 50 Ohms - at least at all frequencies >>>> where there is an output. Someone mentioned minicircuits. They sell >>>> constant impedance filters, where the impedance in the both the >>>> passband and stopband are 50 Ohms. Most filters have a impedance far >>>> away from 50 Ohms in the stopband. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> This is an often repeated fallacy. >>> For low IF frequencies such as in a DMTD, a reactive IF termination can >>> have the advantage of lower noise and larger IF signal slew rate. >>> The resultant reduction in RF and LO port VSWR is easily corrected (at >>> least for low RF and LO frequencies) with a series resistor and/or >>> resistive pad. >>> There are a number of NIST papers on the effect of mixer termination for >>> DMTDs and phase noise measurements. >>> The minicircuits phase detectors (actually specialised mixers) are >>> specified for use with 500 ohm IF terminations. >>> >>>> I don't know the details of what you are trying to do, but keep in >>>> mind what I said. >>>> >>>> Dave >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>> To unsubscribe, go to >>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> Bruce >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.
