In all honesty, I think there is nothing like plugging number into formulas to make one really understand then internal mechanics of statistical (and other mathematical/computational) procedures. If all you do is line the data up and out pops and answer on the other side, nothing was learned. It might as well have been magic.
Chris ….. Christopher D Green Department of Psychology York University Toronto, ON M3J 1P# Canada chri...@yorku.ca http://www.yorku.ca/christo ………………………………... On Oct 1, 2014, at 10:07 AM, Marc Carter <marc.car...@bakeru.edu> wrote: > I'd agree, withte proviso that "by hand" allows things like excel. One can > build formulas in excel and not have to do the tedious and time-wasting > computations we all had to do (who thinks it's important to compute sums of > squares with hand calculators anymore?). Time is better spent, as far as I > can tell, talking about the mathematical objects (what *is* a sum of suqares? > how does it behave?) than using up time calculating it. > > But, that's just my two cents. > > m > ________________________________________ > From: Christopher Green <chri...@yorku.ca> > Sent: Wednesday, October 1, 2014 8:40 AM > To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS) > Subject: Re: [tips] Teach statistics before calculus > > That is good Jim, and I do the same thing, but it is only a start. Most of > the stats actually used in psychological research is continuous, not discrete. > > As for stats courses that allow student to depend on computers, and never do > hand calculations using formulas… this student have not learned statistics. > They have learned data-entry. > > Chris > ….. > Christopher D Green > Department of Psychology > York University > Toronto, ON M3J 1P# > Canada > > chri...@yorku.ca > http://www.yorku.ca/christo > ………………………………... > > On Oct 1, 2014, at 8:01 AM, Jim Clark <j.cl...@uwinnipeg.ca> wrote: > >> Hi >> >> One reason I like probability and binomial in intro stats (despite student >> protest) is that students can determine p distribution if H0 true, without >> calculus. And provides a concrete foundation for normal distribution, which >> binomial approaches as n increases. >> >> Also possible to use simulations to show the resulting probability >> distributions agree nicely with theoretical ps produced by calculus. >> >> Although calculus allows for alternative (deeper?) understanding of >> distributions, not clear that it is necessary. >> >> Of course, calculus has other benefits for stats, such as proof that SS is a >> minimum. >> >> Take care >> Jim >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Oct 1, 2014, at 5:42 AM, "Miguel Roig" <ro...@stjohns.edu> wrote: >>> >>> Chris, I believe that we have had discussions here about the practicality >>> of teaching students to do hand calculations from formulas given the wide >>> availability of statistical software. If so, do those who learn in classes >>> in which the emphasis is primarily conceptual and software-based even >>> taught how to look up p values in those tables? :) >>> >>> Miguel >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Christopher Green [mailto:chri...@yorku.ca] >>> Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2014 6:15 PM >>> To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences (TIPS) >>> Subject: Re: [tips] Teach statistics before calculus >>> >>> Funny, just earlier today I was saying that the reason so many students >>> have so much trouble with the (continuous) statistics that we teach in >>> psychology is that we are essentially trying to teach them a topic that >>> requires a knowledge of calculus without making them take calculus first. >>> That's what all those tables in the back of the book are: they integrate >>> over probability distributions so that we can lookup (rather than calculate >>> directly) the proportion of area up to a given x-axis value (z, t, F, >>> chi-square, etc.). >>> >>> So this guy might be right that stats is at the top of the pyramid, but >>> only because it passes directly through calculus. >>> >>> Chris >>> ..... >>> Christopher D Green >>> Department of Psychology >>> York University >>> Toronto, ON M3J 1P# >>> Canada >>> >>> chri...@yorku.ca >>> http://www.yorku.ca/christo >>> ....................................... >>> >>>> On Sep 30, 2014, at 5:04 PM, Miguel Roig <ro...@stjohns.edu> wrote: >>>> >>>> It's only 3 minutes long and there is probably nothing here that you don't >>>> already know, but I thought it was worth sharing. >>>> >>>> http://www.ted.com/talks/arthur_benjamin_s_formula_for_changing_math_education >>>> >>>> Miguel >>>> ___________________________________________________________________________ >>>> Miguel Roig, Ph.D. >>>> Professor of Psychology >>>> St. John's University >>>> 300 Howard Avenue >>>> Staten Island, New York 10301 >>>> Voice: (718) 390-4513 >>>> Fax: (718) 390-4347 >>>> E-mail: ro...@stjohns.edu >>>> http://facpub.stjohns.edu/~roigm >>>> http://orcid.org/0000-0001-5311-5651 >>>> On plagiarism and ethical writing: >>>> http://ori.dhhs.gov/education/products/plagiarism/ >>>> ___________________________________________________________________________ >>>> --- >>>> You are currently subscribed to tips as: chri...@yorku.ca. >>>> To unsubscribe click here: >>>> http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=430248.781165b5ef80a3cd2b14721caf62bd92&n=T&l=tips&o=38783 >>>> or send a blank email to >>>> leave-38783-430248.781165b5ef80a3cd2b14721caf62b...@fsulist.frostburg.edu >>>> >>> >>> >>> --- >>> You are currently subscribed to tips as: ro...@stjohns.edu. >>> To unsubscribe click here: >>> http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=1632838.7e62b84813297f170a6fc240dab8c12d&n=T&l=tips&o=38787 >>> or send a blank email to >>> leave-38787-1632838.7e62b84813297f170a6fc240dab8c...@fsulist.frostburg.edu >>> >>> --- >>> You are currently subscribed to tips as: j.cl...@uwinnipeg.ca. >>> To unsubscribe click here: >>> http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13251.645f86b5cec4da0a56ffea7a891720c9&n=T&l=tips&o=38803 >>> or send a blank email to >>> leave-38803-13251.645f86b5cec4da0a56ffea7a89172...@fsulist.frostburg.edu >> >> --- >> You are currently subscribed to tips as: chri...@yorku.ca. >> To unsubscribe click here: >> http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=430248.781165b5ef80a3cd2b14721caf62bd92&n=T&l=tips&o=38805 >> or send a blank email to >> leave-38805-430248.781165b5ef80a3cd2b14721caf62b...@fsulist.frostburg.edu >> > > > --- > You are currently subscribed to tips as: marc.car...@bakeru.edu. > To unsubscribe click here: > http://fsulist.frostburg.edu/u?id=13029.76c7c563b32ad9d8d09c72a2d17c90e1&n=T&l=tips&o=38811 > or send a blank email to > leave-38811-13029.76c7c563b32ad9d8d09c72a2d17c9...@fsulist.frostburg.edu > > > > The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto > ("e-mail") > is sent by Baker University ("BU") and is intended to be confidential and for > the > use of only the individual or entity named above. 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