I’d like to draw the list’s attention to the question of whether discourse standards are enforced equally.
In my original reply above, I wrote: > Having read [6] [7] [8], I completely fail to see how these emails are any > more “disruptive” than many others I’ve seen on the list and which have > resulted in no repercussions, including emails from the (now former, > thankfully) AD Paul Wouters. This was actually enough for me to receive an off-list warning from Joseph Salowey! I assume that the warning was due to my expressing thankfulness that Paul Wouters is no longer AD. To be clear, this was a personal value judgement. One could similarly say: “I’m glad the candidate I voted for won”, etc. — it has to do with what one thinks is best for a particular body, here the TLS WG. Nevertheless, I was actually sanctioned for expressing this, with Joseph telling me that I violated the IETF Code of Conduct. Now, this naturally brought a question to my mind: who is it on the TLS WG list that gets sanctioned, especially given the rather broad nature of the incivil misconduct that occurs on this list and on IETF lists generally? Here’s former AD Paul Wouters openly describing me as “malicious" to the entire list, simply for not agreeing with him on opinions or interpretation of WG chair emails: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tls/BBJvgtseIdMy8Cxb-AOH4DbvNhM/ Despite my publicly appealing to the chairs on this issue, I never received any messages from Joseph Salowey or anyone else: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tls/Ksx-gFsQY7D8t_En2LYwHf-w8uQ/ When I publicly complained that the former AD, Paul Wouters, would not cease privately emailing me despite my repeated explicit requests that he stop, conduct which could reasonably be qualified as harassment, I equally received no response from the chairs: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tls/YC4OUKseD1wd5oCrpXTIfw_0C9k/ When Uri Blumenthal publicly mocked me on the list for bringing up the notion of us needing to consider the pure-ML-KEM-handshake draft’s benefits to humanity, no reaction came from Joseph Salowey or any other chair: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tls/vzSG-KI_jt4ryOhNsZdSICbl6mY/ People like Filippo are now writing to this list to ask for strong moderation work. I wonder if these individuals monitor their own conduct. Here’s what Filippo himself had previously written about Bernstein: “He's just a declining scientist that has not made anything relevant for more than 10 years, and wants to slow down the deployment of designs that are bound to replace his own. It would be sad if it weren't so corrosive.” In addition, Filippo has frequently replied mockingly to Bernstein on IETF lists, including replies composed entirely of “hahahahahahahahahaha”, and so on. What I’d like to know is: if I’m being warned by the TLS WG because I said that I was thankful that we have a new TLS WG AD, was Paul Wouters warned for his conduct towards me? Was Uri Blumenthal? Was Filippo warned for his conduct towards Bernstein? Believe me, I could go on! Nadim Kobeissi Symbolic Software • https://symbolic.software > On 10 Apr 2026, at 4:15 AM, Filippo Valsorda <[email protected]> wrote: > > As loath as I am to touch this thread, I would like to thank the chairs and > express my support for their thankless moderation work, lest my silence be > interpreted otherwise. > > Indeed, a diversity of point of views is important, and I heard of many > people who avoid or left this WG or the IETF because of the antics of a few > prolific posters, and in particular due to the often directed and personal > attacks of Bernstein. Many of them from corners of the Internet or with > voices and backgrounds that were already shamefully underrepresented. > > I have on the other hand no worries that the point of view of confident, > contrarian, and prolix men like Bernstein or myself will continue to be > fairly represented. > _______________________________________________ > TLS mailing list -- [email protected] > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]
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