[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
DAVEH: God had the ability to create a world without sin, and to offer an easy salvation. But that is not the way he did it.*****DAVEH: And did he not also provide the temptation? Doesn't it seem likely he intentionally created both for a purpose?jt: God did create a world without sin and He does offer an easy salvation, after all it was he who provided the lamb.
DaveH: Therefore, I believe God had a reason for allowing sin to be a part of his plans. (Hence the subject line to which we are now returning.) I'm trying to find out why Protestants think God 'created sin'. (Or perhaps that's a poor way of stating it......why you think God allows sin to exist.)*****DAVEH: I agree......That is why I emphasized it. What he did is create a situation where a transgression (sin if you will) would take place leading to the fall.jt: God did not 'create sin'
- everything he created was good.*****DAVEH: Is "the tree of the knowledge of good and evil" considered 'good' from a Protestant's (or yours) perspective?
Sin is not good. Would you rather have a heavenly dictator standing over you with a whip to make sure you do right? This is Satan's plan and it is called 'bondage' it is what Jesus died to deliver us from.*****DAVEH: My mind keeps coming back to the fundamental question of why God put that temptation there IF it was to lead (and God knew the ramifications) to the magnitude of sacrifice his only begotten Son would have to suffer through.DAVEH: I fully agree. But let me explain it from a different angle, Judy. God created Adam & Eve, knowing beforehand that they would succumb to temptation. (I assume you agree with that.) Then he places a temptation in the garden, knowing they would partake of the forbidden fruit, and what the consequences would be. If instead, God had simply not put that tempting fruit before them, would you the suggest he is a "heavenly dictator "?
jt: I believe that the 'fruit' was symbolic. It was a tree of fallen wisdom ie: the knowledge of good and evil whereas all they had known was good because they were innocent. But God always makes a way of escape and they didn't have to succumb. Especially not Adam. He made a choice. Eve was deceived.
DaveH: Not at all. I think he would be like a parent concerned about the welfare of his children, by shielding them from unnecessary evil. Most parents would not place their children in a dangerous situation when they know the outcome of that situation......*****DAVEH: Putting this back into a human perspective, IF you knew that allowing one of your children to be tempted would cause another of your children to die in agony, would you still put that temptation in front of your first child just so he could see how frail he is?jt: Adam and Eve were created grown people, so they were hardly infants and yes God knew what they would do, he allows us to be tested so that we will see how frail we are.
DaveH: UNLESS there is a good reason for those children to experience that situation. I don't know if that makes any sense to you, Judy. As a parent, I hope you can see the similarity of the situations that I'm trying to convey.*****DAVEH: Then I suppose it would be a mystery until then.....or do you disagree?jt: I understand what you are saying but not the point of all of it. Why accuse God? This is just the way it is and if there is more to it that we should know he will reveal this also - in his time.
But then I've been doing a little research, and have read that your Church believes that there was some kind of a council of gods in heaven and that Lucifer and Jesus (who are supposedly spirit brothers) both presented their plans. Lucifer's plan was to force men to worship god and Jesus' plan was to show them how to worship god. Lucifer's plan was rejected, and Jesus' plan was accepted. (Pearl of Great Price, Book of Moses 4:103) Is the above what you believe DaveH?*****DAVEH: Thank you for reminding me, Judy. :-)
DAVEH: Yes.
jt: This is interesting. Do you think that Lucifer's plan would have been the better one?DAVEH: No, not at all. The Lord's plan of "salvation" was infinitely better than the Adversary's plan. (I could explain why, but some in TT would accuse me of preaching Mormonism, or even worse!) To me, the plan of salvation as enveloped in the gospel has a grand an noble purpose that requires all the steps we've/I've discussed (in TT since I've been posting), starting with Adam & Eve transgressing......which I believe was a fundamental step in that plan. Without the 'fall', there could be no 'salvation' (as I would think of it....which is distinctly different from the Protestant definition). Hence, the Lord's work would not be able to progress. BTW......I realize my above explanation might seem convoluted and difficult to follow.....sorry 'bout that. jt: Well I'm sure there is a whole lot more in your explanation than I am able to follow - also we must keep in mind that your gospel is a different gospel and that you are led by a different spirit. Judy
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Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
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