Charles Perry Locke wrote:
DAVEH: I feel a big pitch coming.....DaveH said: It kinda saddens me to think that even though my primary purpose to be on TT is to find out about the beliefs of Protestants, many TTers now do not want to discuss such with me, and those who do merely want to bury me with anti-Mormon arguments. I doappreciate you (DavidM, Judy and other willing TTers) taking the time to answer my questions though.Perry responds:As I have posted before on this forum, and as you have demonstrated many times, your stated intention of "learning what protestants believe" is not your true intention. In the many years that you have been on TT, and asked many newcomers with the same old questions, you have failed to learn what protestants believe.
DAVEH: IMO, it seems the same can be said of the way some TTers think about what Mormons believe.
Either you are incapable of learning it, or you do not want to know what protestants think, and I believe it is the latter. It did not take Dean or Kevin very long to figure this out. It took me about six months. Izzy has your number, too.It is absolutely no surprise that many TT'rs do not want to discuss it with you. You are not genuine.
DAVEH: I appreciate your honest opinion, even though I disagree with it.
When someone asks, we Christians LOVE answering questions,
DAVEH: That hasn't been my experience.
but it is frustrating for any teacher to have unteachable students
DAVEH: I don't view myself as being a student, or you being a teacher. I'm not here to have you teach me another philosophy. I'm here to find out what you believe and why. Do you understand the difference, Perry. You want to convert me to your way of thinking, do you not? That is not why I am here. Don't you understand that?
who are in the class to rebut the teachings instead of learn them.As for the real reason you are here?
DAVEH: I am simply amazed that it hasn't occurred to you (especially after explaining this a couple times previously) and other TTers that I grew up in a religious culture that does not have a lot of interaction with other Protestants on a theological level. There are a lot of LDS sources/people who have told me what Protestants believe, but I don't feel comfortable accepting such secondary/biased sources as totally factual. When I joined TT, it seemed like the perfect forum to actually get to talk to Protestants and ask them directly why they believe the way they do. However, instead of simply answering the questions, most TTers I've chatted with feel compelled to try to change me.....or rather.....convert me away from Mormonism. OK....I can understand why you would want to do that, but I would think that after I explain why I am here and repeatedly explain that I have no intentions of leaving Mormonism, and that my intentions here are to converse with non LDS Christians ......then a lot of TTers get upset and accuse me of being here for surreptitious reasons.Both you, Kevin and others have tried in vain to point out what you perceive to be 'problems' with LDS theology hoping I'll see the 'light' and leave Mormonism. When I don't succumb to your pressure, you then cry 'fowl' and debate whether or not Mormons should be allowed on TT. When I ask questions about how much forethought the underwear waving protesters in SLC consider prior to their public displays, it is suggested that I am feeling the heat of their efforts and that I am worried they'll persuade a lot of Mormons to see the 'light'. You know something Perry......I really wanted to know an answer to that/my question, but I never got it despite asking it numerous times. Apparently, Judy understood what I was asking. Yet it seems nobody else did. They just want to attack, attack, attack and attack. IMO, they (the protesters) are doing more harm to Christianity as a whole than to Mormonism. I know there are LDS folks who are offended by their (protesters') actions, but I don't quite see it that way. I've not yet experienced anything quite like what is happening in SLC, but I think if I were there and somebody tried some of the banal stunts they've been pulling down there, I would want to talk to them to ask the same question...."Have you considered what effect your actions may have on people's view of Christianity in general?" Is that not a question you would want to consider if you were planning on a public display of Christianity, Perry?
Perry......If somebody wanted to wave your underwear in front of your face in a highly public venue, wouldn't you be a bit curious about how deeply they were thinking when they did their strategic planning? Well.....that's my thinking. Wave my underwear as much as you want.....I've got no problem with it personally. But I do worry a bit about how they may feel when Jesus asks them why they besmirched his name in public.
I believe you have doubts about your own LDS faith, and are either here to a) bolster your confidence in your own faith in Mormonism by debunking protestant beliefs, thus verifying that your religion is the "right" one, or you are reaching out for truth, and the right one to reach you has not yet come along on TT yet.
David, I know you have difficulty with some of the things you read on TT about Mormonism,
DAVEH: LOL.......Perry, you would be very surprised if I told you what bothers me about what I hear on TT!
things that are not all pretty and soft like you were taught, that you have a hard time resolving. David, you must by now have learned that JS was a huckster and a false prophet, and a philanderer.
DAVEH: Being accused of such is probably not something unique only to latter-day prophets.
The LDS history is wrought with lies, deceptions, frauds, murders, and "secret" ceremonies of cultic origin. Be brave, David, and place your confidence in God and come out of that system into the loving arms of Jesus. It seems impossible to you now to do that, especially since you were raised in that system, and your entire culture is based in that lie, but it IS possible, as all things are possible with God. You will survive..................
Perry
DavidH and Blaine,How can you continue in a system in which the founder consistently uttered false prophecy? It is so plain to see to those who
are not in the LDS system and who are seeking the truth and see LDS doctrine for what it is.
DAVEH: Hmmmmm......You are saying that as if you are unbiased.....
How long can you continue to llie to yourselves about the flawed theology, false prophecies, adulterous "commands", and
cultic indoctrinations? You call yourselves truth-seekers, when in fact you are truth-ignorers. At some level, deep within the piy
of your stomach, you must have an uneasy feeling that you are in a false religion.
DAVEH: It is a feeling that will go away as soon as I leave TT.... <VBG>
I am sure you do not know how to get out
without great embarassment before your LDS brothers and sisters, and the hardestDAVEH: I think he already has.
of all, you will have to admit that all you have been taught is a lie. You will be castigated before your former peers, your "good
ol' Mormon boy" image will be shattered. As you pointed out a few posts ago, DavidH, you feel "comfotable" with your beliefs.
But, ask yourself this today...will you continue to bask in the "comfort" of a lie, or will you seek a relationship with the true God
of the universe? One is "comfortable", while the other brings life.I guarantee, that once you get enough courage to see it for what it is, the Holy Spirit will open your eyes so wide that you will
see the truth,
and you will know why we all so desparately want to bring you out of it.DAVEH: Therein lies the problem......you and a lot of other TTers are a little too desperate for my liking.
If we did not care, we would not be tryingDAVEH: I appreciate your concern, but if you don't accept why I am here, I will always be a dilemma to you. You can't stand the way I am, yet you can't change me. So instead you toss out accusations and some even want me expelled.
to show you the nature of the LDS lie.
We would just ignore you.DAVEH: If I bother you or anybody else on TT to that point.....that's OK.......just delete my posts without reading them. I will then resort to getting my unasked questions answered by reading the posts on TT or find another forum that may be more willing to talk to/with outsiders. Surely Perry, there must be Christians somewhere who are willing to simply chat about religious topics without getting their noses' bent all out of shape when the discussion does not go the way they would like.
Perry
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If you wish to receive
things I find interesting,
I maintain Five email lists...
JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
STUFF and MOTORCYCLE.
