----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Perry Locke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, January 23, 2004 11:00
AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Geography of Never Never
land
> Blaine,
>
> I guess when god ran out of things to say in the BoM he just copied,
> verbatim, in the King's English, whole sections from the KJV Bible. After
> all, if it was good enough for the Bible, it was good enough for the BoM,
> right?
>
> I guess when god ran out of things to say in the BoM he just copied,
> verbatim, in the King's English, whole sections from the KJV Bible. After
> all, if it was good enough for the Bible, it was good enough for the BoM,
> right?
Blaine:
Wrong. The passages in the BoM that compare with those in the Bible are
mostly from Isaiah. This is no mystery, since the entire first Book of
Nephi tells how Brass Plates containing all of the first five books of
Moses, plus the prophets up until about 600 BC. were obtained by Nephi and
his brothers. They got this valuable record from Laban's "treasury."
The use of the word "treasury" in the Book of Mormon, by the way,
is just another evidence the BoM came from a Jewish source. The
scriptural scrolls kept by the Rabbis in Jewish churches, or synagogues,
are kept in special cabinets, or sometimes even rooms, called
"treasuries." If Joseph Smith had been writing the Book of Mormon on
his own knowledge, he would not have known that. He likely would
have called any repository of records or books a library, since that
would be what he was familiar with in New England.(see 1 Nephi
4:20)
>
> I suppose the inconsistencies that Kevin pointed out god put in there to
> bring confusion to the non-believers? Mormons see right through those
> inconsistencies, don't they?
>
> I suppose the inconsistencies that Kevin pointed out god put in there to
> bring confusion to the non-believers? Mormons see right through those
> inconsistencies, don't they?
Blaine: What
inconsistencies? ROTFL!!
>
> I suppose when the BoM contradicts the Bible, god was just testing those
> who accept the bible only by putting errors in the bible?
> I suppose when the BoM contradicts the Bible, god was just testing those
> who accept the bible only by putting errors in the bible?
Blaine:
Please tell us what these inconsistencies are, so we can discuss
them. Do one at a time however, so we can discuss in depth.
The truth lies in details, not broad accusations.
>
> I suppose when god said that Jared would be the father of the greatest
> nation on earth, even greater than the seed of Abraham, the Jaredites, he
> didn't figure on them dying out so soon? How many Jaredites do you know?
> Where is the evidence of the Jaredites, this "greatest nation"?
>
> I suppose when god said that Jared would be the father of the greatest
> nation on earth, even greater than the seed of Abraham, the Jaredites, he
> didn't figure on them dying out so soon? How many Jaredites do you know?
> Where is the evidence of the Jaredites, this "greatest nation"?
Blaine: The
Jaredites came from the Tower of Babel time, which was built. . .
h ow many years ago? The Jaredites may well have been a
great nation in their time. Babylon (Iraq) was great in its time, but is
no more. The same with the Incas, the Toltecs, the Egyptians,
etc. Great Britain was great before it
was put in the shade by the US.
By the way
> does Jared's brother have a name?
> does Jared's brother have a name?
Blaine: He is
always just called "The Brother of Jared," in the BoM. Joseph Smith said
his name had a sacred meaning, and was therefore not written in the
record. I am not sure I can spell the
name--It seems like it was something like, "Mahonri Moriancumr."
>
> And who is Moron? Isn't that a name from the BoM? Or, was it one of god's
> practical jokes for readers of the BoM?
>
> And who is Moron? Isn't that a name from the BoM? Or, was it one of god's
> practical jokes for readers of the BoM?
Blaine: LOL Are you
telling me or asking me? Moron appears in the Jaredite record as a
little known Jaredite king. You really had to dig deep for that
one!! It is not unusual for words from different cultures to sound alike
and even be spelled alike, but have totally different meanings.
(:>)
And that guy named Alma...doesn't
> that mean "young girl"?
> that mean "young girl"?
Blaine, Again, are you
telling me or asking me? You need to maybe follow Kevin's example--at least he
furnishes sources--outdated though most of the are. (:>) By the way, I will be writing more
later on Book of Mormon names, so stay tuned!!
>
> Finally, who is Oliver Granger? Isn't he the one whose name the mormon
> god prophecied would not be forgotten? Who is he again? You didn't forget,
> did you?
>
> Finally, who is Oliver Granger? Isn't he the one whose name the mormon
> god prophecied would not be forgotten? Who is he again? You didn't forget,
> did you?
Blaine: He is recorded in the
D&C Section 117. That is pretty good, considering my granpa knew
Joseph Smith and converted over 1000 people to Mormonism, and didn't even get an
honorable mention. He might be in other books, too, but then I have not
read even a fraction of the thousands of books that have been written on
Mormonism. Joseph Smith said the same thing about a man named Joseph
Knight, that he would be remembered forever. I recently purchased a 500
page book on the Knight family in the Church, the first of its kind.
Patience, Perry, patience.
> Yep, sounds like a book I want to hang my eternal destiny on.
Blaine: Noone is asking you to
do that, but my question is why do you go to such great lengths to make the BoM
and/or Mormonism look bad. It appears you are pretty worried that it might
just be true. Right?
While there
> may be no injunctions about bringing forth additional scripture, there are
> injunctions against false prophets and different gospels.
> may be no injunctions about bringing forth additional scripture, there are
> injunctions against false prophets and different gospels.
Blaine: The gospel
as outlined in the BoM and Mormonism in general is more like the
original gospel of Jesus' time than the current TCBS (Traditional Christian
Belief System), with some added features which were reserved for these last
days. The LDS Church has a quorum of twelve, where are your apostles? It
has quorums of Seventy, where are yours? It keeps the Lord's supper, even
has fixed prayers for such, where and when do you keep this important
ordinance? It baptizes by immersion, it believes in three members of the
godhead, it teaches faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, it teaches a belief in the
Holy Ghost, spirtual gifts, a judgement to come, that Christ overcame death for
all . . . tell me which of these is part
of "another gospel," Perry? I am especially interested in your
answer to this question!!!!
The fact that you
> were brought up under the BoM, unfortunately, is no excuse for believing it.
> And, there ARE contradictions between the Bible and the BoM.
> were brought up under the BoM, unfortunately, is no excuse for believing it.
> And, there ARE contradictions between the Bible and the BoM.
Blaine: Again, what
contradictions? I keep asking, but never get an answer.
You just don't
> want to admit it. Its a "Mormon thang", you say.
> want to admit it. Its a "Mormon thang", you say.
Blaine:
Putting words in my mouth, Perry? I never said
that.
>
> Perry
>
> >From: "Blaine Borrowman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Geography of Never Never land
> >Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 09:34:31 -0700
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2004 2:30 PM
> >Subject: [TruthTalk] Geography of Never Never land
> >
> >
> > >
> > > From: "Blaine Borrowman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Kevin wrote:
> > > The BoM is a work of FICTION:
> > >
> > > Blaine writes: There is so much about the book of Mormon that tells us
> > > it is true, we don't need to know exactly where everything was, but we
> > > believe and have faith it will be revealed in the Lord's own due time
> > > anyway--He has not failed us yet. We know God is testing our faith--He
> > > will pull our very heartstrings to see if we can stand it, and if we
> > > can't, we are not fit for the Kingdom of God--
> > >
> > > Judy:
> > > What exactly about the book of Mormon tells you it is true Blaine?
> > > What I can't figure out is why you would prefer that to the Holy Bible?
> >
> >**Blaine: How could you figure it out? You haven't read it! You can't
> >draw water from a dry well. (:>)>
> > > Blaine:
> > > so, Kevin, and Judy, when the locations are eventually shown to man,
> > > you will be ashamed for not having had more faith, while we will be
> > > rejoicing, having had our faith tested, and having kept the faith as
> >true
> > >
> > > and loyal servants.
> > >
> > > Judy:
> > > What if at His coming you learn that your faith has been misplaced?
> >
> >**Blaine: My faith in the BoM is such that I don't worry about that. I
> >have read the BoM several times--each time, I have had my faith in it
> >reinforced.
> >
> > > After all, we will be judged by the words that Jesus spoke, not the book
> > > of Mormon. (see John 12:48)
> >
> >**Blaine: The BoM is chock full of Jesus' sayings. We will be judged
> >by all of God's words, including, I believe, the BoM. I get the
> >impression you think God could not do what he did in bringing forth the
> >BoM. This takes faith. You need to begin by allowing yourself to believe
> >it was possible--a small belief, as in a mustard seed. Your faith will
> >grow as you are more able to see the BoM in a poitive llight.
> >I have a question Judy-- The BoM claims to be more of the word of God, yet
> >most peole are incurious about such a book. They have been so inculcated
> >with the belief that the Bible is all that God is willing to do for us,
> >that they just automatically turn the BoM off. Surely you have more faith
> >in God than to believe he could not have brought forth more of his word.
> >
> > > Blaine:
> > > Our confidence will wax strong in the presence of God, but you will go
> > > away with your heads hanging down, unless you repent of your arrogance
> > > and pride.
> > >
> > > Judy:
> > > Paul told the Bereans they were more honorable than those in
> >Thessalonica
> > > because they checked his teaching against the scriptures.. Why is it
> > > price
> > > and arrogance to do the same today? It was God's wisdom then and
> > > God does not change. Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever.
> >
> >**Blaine: I apologize for using the words "Pride and arrogance," I
> >sometimes get a little arrogant myself, since I am so positive my faith in
> >the BoM is solidly founded on the Rock of Christ. You are correct, you
> >definitely should check the teachings of the BoM against the scriptures of
> >the Bible, both Old and New Testaments. (:>)
> > >
> > > Blaine:
> > > BTW, there are already several newer books written by BYU people regards
> > > the locations in the BoM--very interesting stuff. But considering you
> > > are so anxious to make anything favorable to Mormonism appear wrong, or
> > > evil, I have fears you will not read them, or if you do read them, you
> > > would just fault them. Your quotes below are all back in the 60's and
> > > 70's-- any new stuff? I do have some things written more recently--all
> > > one has to do is vistit Deseret Book Store. Thye shalves get fuller and
> > > fuller.
> > >
> > > Judy:
> > > Of the writing of many books there is no end but the writer of
> > > Ecclesiastes tells us it is "weariness to the flesh" - I spend most of
> > > my
> > > time focusing on THE BOOK.
> > > Grace and Peace,
> > > Judy
> >
> >**Blaine: Actually, I have studied the Bible as much if not more than the
> >BoM, so I can't fault you for staying with it, especially since you were
> >brought up with it exclusively. But stop and put yourself in the shoes of
> >someone who was raised studying other scriptures not found in the Bible, as
> >with myself. My perspective is different from yours only insofar as I have
> >the advantage of a comparison. When I compare the two books, I find that
> >the BoM answers questions not made clear in the Bible, yet does not
> >contradict the Bible. The claim that bringing forth new scripture is
> >violating a biblical injunction against doing so is nonsense. There are no
> >injunctions against new scripture anywhere in the Bible--only injunctions
> >about changing existing ones. But this would be true for any
> >scripture--once written, it should not be changed.
> > >
> >
> > > ----------
> > > "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
> >know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)
> >http://www.InnGlory.org
> > >
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> > >
>
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