From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In a message dated
3/13/2004 3:44:45 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
John says Although He had emptied Himself of the nature of God
What scripture supports this theory?
John says Although He had emptied Himself of the nature of God
What scripture supports this theory?
John:
Kevin, understand that I am not standing in concrete on this idea that God had something to learn about his human creation. And it is not a question that should cause deep concern on anyone's part. It is not germane to faith - the discussion may be detrimental to such. So let's me careful here.
Scripture? Well, in Old Testament scripture, God is pictured as one who can change his mind -- he repented that he made man. If the biblical author meant what he said, we (I) can conclude that God can change his mind. That he sees, learns, considers, and even changes.
Kevin, understand that I am not standing in concrete on this idea that God had something to learn about his human creation. And it is not a question that should cause deep concern on anyone's part. It is not germane to faith - the discussion may be detrimental to such. So let's me careful here.
Scripture? Well, in Old Testament scripture, God is pictured as one who can change his mind -- he repented that he made man. If the biblical author meant what he said, we (I) can conclude that God can change his mind. That he sees, learns, considers, and even changes.
jt: I
understand why he repented that he made man. He had to wipe them all out
once and it looked like he might have to do it again but for Moses'
intercession... but in Malachi he says "I am the Lord, I change not" and in
Hebrews we see "Jesus Christ, the same yesterday, today, and forever" so the
idea that God sees, learns, considers, and changes is unscriptural.
In Phip 2, Christ empties himself and becomes man. The Heb writer says that he became like us in every way. So the very nature of his existence changed for a time while on this earth. He was tempted and sinned not. That victory is completely meaningless to me if he overcame Satan's advance by powers and authorities that are not available to me (to us.)
jt: But the same power to overcome the adversary IS
available to us. Jesus walked in the "fullness" of the Spirit during his time of
ministry and we have a measure of the same Spirit along with the nine spiritual
giftings that were given to men when he ascended.
God did not sin --- big deal. God, who is not like us at
all, emptied Himself, lived the same life He has ordered us to live, and did
what we keep saying that we cannot do --- he never committed a sin. That
is a bid deal.
jt: He left us an example that we should follow in His
steps. Cannot do should not be spoken in Christendom. Even the Navy
Seabees do better than this. We need to deal with our fear and
unbelief.
If he lived his life as I do' if he was victorious by the same powers
available to me, then my failure to imitate his victory is my fault.
I can never say, "I am only human," as an offering for why I am an
unrighteous servant because Christ was human and he did what God charged him to
do. I believe that the life of Christ (and his success over sin)
condemns me because it leaves without excuse; His death and resurrection
solve that problem.
jt: Even if Christ did not have the same kind of
flesh that you have you still can not say "I am only human" because those who
are in Christ should be part of a new creation, created in Christ Jesus, and he
is the author and perfecter of our faith.
Actually, I think I got off track a little here. I am trying to get ready for a trip to visit my wayward son. I am not as focused as I should be. I will be gone for a week so I may not get back to anyone for a while. Maybe I can sneak in a response or two before I leave this afternoon.
We will see. Does any of the above help or hurt? I do ask your prayers for my son. The old man (that would be me) is going to have to be sharp -- yet, I know amd am fully convinced that it is God who brings the increase. My son is a lawyer and has been greatly influenced by the situaltional ethics taught by those in his profession. That has become a problem for him, spiritually. Dad needs to come to the rescue. I am hoping that God will work thru the respect that my son has for me and turn on the light of true understanding. I certainly do not want to add harm to the situation. Anyway --- pray, right now. I would if you ask of me the same.
Actually, I think I got off track a little here. I am trying to get ready for a trip to visit my wayward son. I am not as focused as I should be. I will be gone for a week so I may not get back to anyone for a while. Maybe I can sneak in a response or two before I leave this afternoon.
We will see. Does any of the above help or hurt? I do ask your prayers for my son. The old man (that would be me) is going to have to be sharp -- yet, I know amd am fully convinced that it is God who brings the increase. My son is a lawyer and has been greatly influenced by the situaltional ethics taught by those in his profession. That has become a problem for him, spiritually. Dad needs to come to the rescue. I am hoping that God will work thru the respect that my son has for me and turn on the light of true understanding. I certainly do not want to add harm to the situation. Anyway --- pray, right now. I would if you ask of me the same.
jt: It may be better to love your son and enjoy
him during your time together John. If he is heavily into Unitarianism then you
are dealing with a spirit and this kind can take prayer and
fasting.
judyt
God allows the devil to raise up heretics
to make his people study
John
to make his people study
John
