Re: [TruthTalk] God in our unconscious

[Wm. Taylor]

Judy asks if this is my position or belief.: "We must do everything to avoid contention at all costs. Am I wrong?"   Yes you are wrong. Sometimes contention finds us and is thus unavoidable. Why go looking for it? On the other hand, Is this one of those unavoidable times? Only if you are Izzy. Why? Because, Judy, you can stop provoking her. You can respect her wishes, even if you disagree with the basis from which she makes the request. You can simply leave her alone and stay away from her discussions. That is loving her. That is respecting her. That allows you to take what you consider to be the narrow road and stay on it. It does not diminish from what you believe. It acts upon those beliefs. This doesn't make her right and you wrong, it makes you right in this aspect of your relationship, period. That at least leaves open the door to other strands of reconciliation and for growth to occur in your relationship with her, even if that growth is a long way down the road.   You suggest that my involvement in this has to do with bringing my own baggage, as if somehow I ought to divorce myself from myself. Of course I bring my own "baggage" with me to this discussion, I can't not bring it. The question is, what am I doing with it, and why am I doing it? Don't believe the lie that says you have to be totally objective to be of service to others. Be Christian in your service! The problem you are having with Izzy is the problem you have had with several on this site, including with me. I am involved because I want to be, because I ought to be, and because I need to be. Why? because I cannot not love you, without being disobedient to our Lord. The question is, how ought I love you. Should I ignore you? or Should I engage you? I have found it very difficult to ignore you, Judy, because you do not lend yourself to that. You are all over the place (which is fine until it starts to be a problem), and you are unrelenting. You do not leave people alone, not me, not Izzy. Let me give you and example of this, from this morning's posts.   At 5:04 AM (my time) you posted a response. You began your response with these words "For Perry ...." (See immediately below), but the post you were responding to was Izzy's. It was her post, her words, her ideas, her sensibilities, hers, hers, hers.   "----- Original Message ----- From: Judy Taylor To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 5:04 AM Subject: [TruthTalk] M Scott Peck a Christian LOL (Perry) For Perry...." Judy, this just does not suffice, not if what you are attempting to do is actually be reconciled! Let me picked up a piece of your response in this post: Izzy wrote this in her remarks to Perry, the recipient of her address   >   "And it has helped us strive for forgiveness by understanding that 'they know not what they do' when evil people 'project' their own self-hatred onto their victims."  Judy, this is your words, this is how you responded. >    Why label the people? We don’t war against flesh and blood. It is what is working in them that is evil and if we are not walking circumspectly the same spirit will have access to and use us to be an oracle for satan in this earth also. Judy, Who were you addressing when you asked this question? Perry? or Izzy? Perry has no business answering it: IT WAS NOT HIS WORDS TO BEGIN WITH. Only Izzy can answer this question. So, was your response really "For Perry.... "?  I'm going to repost Izzy's statement and your response and then ask you a few more questions   >  "And it has helped us strive for forgiveness by understanding that 'they know not what they do' when evil people 'project' their own self-hatred onto their victims."   Judy, again, this is your words, this is how you responded. >    Why label the people? We don’t war against flesh and blood. It is what is working in them that is evil and if we are not walking circumspectly the same spirit will have access to and use us to be an oracle for satan in this earth also.   Judy, why are you unwilling to take your own advice; to hear the words of your own wisdom? Since coming to TT I've heard you "label the people" times too numerous to mention. When you label someone an unbeliever, whom you do not even know and have not sought to understand, are you not walking circumspectly? At that point, whose oracle are you accessing? What Izzy says here is far less labeling -- and even if labeling, far less frequent, and certainly less evil -- than the kind of labeling you do when sitting in ultimate judgment over another's eternal well-being, especially if the one whom you are judging is already deceased.  <       Why are you even dabbling in this stuff?     > "For Perry ..." doesn't cut it, Judy. What are the real motives? You have been asked by your sister to respect her wishes and stop intruding upon and critiquing her conversations. When you critique her words, and this in the face of the history of our last few days, are you not revealing where and with whom your own allegiances lie? Why don't you stop doing this? either that or just get sick of us all and leave? If you want me out of your correspondence, that is one thing. If I am right in what I am saying while in your correspondence that is quite another. That is one which even if I am not the one making it, still needs to be made from this side  .  .  .  . and addressed from your side of this problem.   Respectfully, Bill Taylor     ----- Original Message ----- From: Kevin Deegan To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 9:06 AM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] God in our unconscious Perhaps Bill you are just plain wrong. You also, are interfering here. You were not around when this "problem" occured how do you make a judgement then?   It seems to me that just maybe your bringing your own baggage to the table. Seems you don't like contention and provocation. Am I wrong? "Wm. Taylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: No, Judy, I am not calling you a liar. And I am not even doubting that you did write Izzy. You are right: Izzy is offended, and I sense that she is angry. Why continue to provoke her? For I am also observing that you have kept with your offensive ways toward her, even after your claim to have written to her personally. I may only imagine what your private correspondence said, but I can observe with my own eyes what you continue to do on TT. Judy, it is time to take the words of your brothers and sister here on TT and recognize the error of your ways.   Respectfully,     Bill Taylor  ----- Original Message ----- From: Judy Taylor To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 3:43 PM Subject: [TruthTalk] God in our unconscious Bill, I percieve that you are another one who does not listen. You have judged me already as offensive, proud, and stubborn, causing hurt to an innocent party. I have already written to Izzy with no response so have done all that I can do. Are you calling me a liar on top of your other adjectives.  This is not my fight. Izzy is the offended, angry one so talk to Izzy.     From: "Wm. Taylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Bill writes  >  Judy, sometimes we are commanded to get involved in quarrels that may not concern us personally but do concern us corporately as the body of Christ (Matthew 18). Perhaps John is getting involved here because you are sinning, because you are offensive, because you are too proud to recognize either, and because your refusal to repent is still hurting your sister.   Take the words of your brothers and sister here on TT and recognize the error of your ways.   Bill Taylor   John writes  >  I  don't mind the discussion with you, but Izzy does.  the scriptures teach that we are not to "seek our own." Love does not seek its own way or will. Izzy does have a delete button. And you have instruction from God on how to show respect to others. Why not practice what you preach instead of insisting on your "rights" as a member of a public list.     jt writes  >   Then John, let Izzy use her delete button just like I use mine. Why are you taking up an offense for her? Do you have instruction from God to jump into the middle of this. I think there is a Proverb about ppl who get into quarrels that don't concern them.  Why are you doing this?   ----- From: Judy Taylor From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This is a public list and you are choosing to be here john: Why do you communicate with Izzy?     jt: Why do you want to keep stirring this John?   Do you actually think you are accomplishing some good addressing your thoughts to someone who is not listening to you?     jt: I don't address my thoughts to Izzy normally.  I did write her off list but she ignored that and this will most likely make things worse. Why can't we address issues and leave the personal stuff alone.   I  don't mind the discussion with you, but Izzy does.  the scriptures teach that we are not to "seek our own."   Love does not seek its own way or will.   Izzy does have a delete button.      jt: Then John, let Izzy use her delete button just like I use mine. Why are you taking up an offense for her?   And you have instruction from God on how to show respect to others.    Why not practice what you preach instead of insisting on your "rights" as a member of a public list.      jt: Do you have instruction from God to jump into the middle of this. I think there is a Proverb about ppl who get into quarrels that don't concern them.  Why are you doing this? Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time.