David wrote > Ok, so I share this information from the Interlinears so you can criticize them or correct them where you think it appropriate. Also, I share it so that we can be on the same page in discussing this phrase. It now seems to me that you have not dealt with that word hoti which both translators render as that. Perhaps you can give us your own translation of this entire Greek phrase. If you omit translating any of the words other than the definite article modifying Theou, please explain.
David, I am happy with either of the transliterations you provide. Let us remember though that a transliteration is not a step in the process of translation. Transliteration is something like DOS For Dummies: it's a decent way to get Greek over into English font, but it is inferior in every way to an actual reading of Greek; in other words, there is much more to reading Greek than simply knowing how to identify symbols. The same holds true for translating Greek into English. Word order is important to English syntax, but much less so to Greek. Those who knew how to write well in Greek were much more intuned to assonance and alliteration than we are in our writing. Word order in Greek is always secondary to grammatical rules. Many times the nominative appears after the predicate and sometimes even after the accusative. Greek allowed for this because of case endings. No matter where the word appears in a statement the case ending signifies its use. For this reason writers of Greek could be much more creative in there use of other literary devices. It makes for beautiful Greek, but it causes problems for translators of Greek. We English speakers sometimes have to break some of our conventions to get to the thrust of a Greek thought. One of those problems presents itself in this verse. It is a question of what do we do with pas: Which way do we go with it in our translation? Pas is nominative. It modifies nominatives. There are two nominatives in 18a; the verb oidamen, which is first person plural and carries the subject of the sentence, and the participle gegennamenos. The interpretive task in translating this clause is to decide which of the two nominatives to modify. In regards to this, I was quite upfront with you in my earlier post. Allow me to be upfront with you again. I chose to modify the first person plural because of the question raised later in the verse concerning who it is who "keeps himself." Not even the born-from-above, Spirit-filled Christian keeps himself from the evil one. Christ is keeps him through the indwelling strength of the Holy Spirit. This is always, always true. John knew this better than anyone. I do not believe him to be suggesting anything to the contrary -- he was after all one of the disciples whom satan had asked to sift. He saw with his own eyes how quickly Peter had denied Jesus. He got the object of the lesson: strength and protection against the wicked one are in Christ through the Holy Spirit. I bring my knowledge of these truths from the Gospels of Christ with me to my translation of John's epistle. I do not apologize for that. And so you or any Greek scholar are welcome to disagree with my rendering of these Greek words. I ask only that you be honest enough to consider what you are bringing with you when you go to the same text and begin to translate.
Blessing, Bill
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