False ideas precede false actions
heresy is sin and as such sends people to hell
Gal 5 says HERESIES along with witchcraft, idolatry, fornication Adultery are WORKS of the flesh
2 Pt 2:21 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
If false Doctrine is not a sin that sends one to hell Please explain how one Blasphemes Doctrine
HERESY is CONDEMNED it is DAMNABLE 2 Pt 2:21 and God's DOCTRINE can be BLASHEMED 1 Tim 6:1
David Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Kevin wrote:
> First of all heresy and false doctrine
> are sin also
> Titus [sic] 1:10 For whoremongers, for them
> that defile themselves with mankind, for
> menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons,
> and if there be any other thing that is contrary
> to sound doctrine
Sound doctrine is that teaching which produces holiness. Read this passage
a little more carefully. It is not condemning those who have false ideas,
but those who have ACTIONS which are contrary to sound doctrine. A man who
considers it okay in a situation to steal is not condemned until he either
plans out a theft or actually commits a theft. In the same way, the person
who considers giving to a good cause is not righteous until he actually does
it. It works both ways.
Please read 1 Timothy 1:10 again and notice that sins are condemned, not
mistaken ideas. Sound doctrine is not defined as "true teaching" but rather
as that teaching which produces wholesome behavior (holiness, love, etc.).
God is not in favor of having "thought police."
Kevin wrote:
> The last time we talked about this I was not
> able to come up with excommunication for
> false doctrine??????? maybe you were involved
> with someone else.
It was not someone else. It was you and Dean, here on TruthTalk.
Kevin wrote:
> Consider them as heathen MT 18 And if he
> shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church:
> but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be
> unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
Mat. 18 concerns how to handle personal sin, not false teaching.
Kevin wrote:
> AVOID False Doctrine is contagious RM
> 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark
> them which cause divisions and offences
> contrary to the doctrine which ye have
> learned; and avoid them.
The things that lead us to avoidance here are divisions and offenses. The
means by which they accomplish this is false teaching. We are to avoid
those who cause such divisions through false teaching, but note how mild
this is compared to the approach of 1 Cor. 5 with the fornicator, who is
excommunicated for his continued sin.
Kevin wrote:
> WITHDRAW from those Following Wrong tradition
> 2 Th 3:6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name
> of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves
> from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after
> the tradition which he received of us.
Here he is talking about those who are walking disorderly. This is sin,
actions which are contrary to love. No mention of false teachings here.
Kevin wrote:
> CHARGE them that they stop Titus 1 that thou
> mightest charge some that they teach no other
> doctrine
Read Titus 1 carefully, and notice how he deals with false doctrine here.
It is not through excommunication or delivering them over to Satan. It is
by instruction and by rebuke. Titus cannot convince and exhort the
gainsayers if he is not associating with them to some degree.
Kevin wrote:
> WITHDRAW from Blasphemous Doctrine
> 1Tim 6 that the name of God and his doctrine
> be not blasphemed.
You seem a little mixed up here. 1 Tim. 6:1 is about servants giving honor
to their masters.
Kevin wrote:
> If any man teach otherwise, and consent not
> to wholesome words, even the words of our
> Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which
> is according to godliness... from such withdraw
> thyself DONT LET THEM IN
I think you are taking too much liberty in your translation to say, "Don't
let them in." Paul is urging Timothy not to waste time disputing with
people who are not walking in the truth. Nothing is said here about
excommunicating. He is explaining a leadership style. Timothy should focus
upon teaching sound doctrine to those who will receive it, and he should
withdraw from those who are teaching out of strife, envy, railings, and evil
surmisings. If teaching does not lead to holiness, it is worthless.
Now you have one thing right. There is a relationship between teachings and
actions. Discipline is brought to bear when the actions are manifested, not
when the ideas are formulated and expressed. First there is rebuke and
correction. Then there is marking and avoidance. By that time, the person
will be into so much sin that excommunication would become appropriate, not
for the false teaching, but for the sinful behavior manifested. Rightly and
carefully divide the Word of God and you will see that what I say to you
about this is true.
Peace be with you.
David Miller.
----------
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
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