-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 07:52:41 -0700
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Belief
DAVEH: Do you believe God could reveal his will to prophets in post Bible times? Or do you believe God no longer needs prophets to reveal his will....effectively meaning the heavens are closed?Again, I would not reference my belief in terms of "heaven closed" God can do anything He wants -- just as He has in the past. Prophecy is one of the spiritual gifts Paul mentions in I Corinthians and is a desirable gift. Perhaps we have a difference in definition on this one. A prophet who functions as a spokesman for God to a nation of God's people ????? no , I do not believe that to be the case. There is no nation. The prophet in the church, today, functions for a very different reason. Eph 4:11-16 gives us several categories of leaders within the assembly of the the Saints (whether latter day or otherwise) AND the purpose/mission of each. In scripture (and this is what an Okie pastor thinks -- s omeone else can polish up the theology of it all). The "apostle" was not a ranking of ficial in the church -- rather he was one to whom God gave the ministry we see in the "Great Commission." Their work was evangelistic in concept and foundational in nature. All of the Christian church was founded upon the work of these righteous ancients. Why do you suppose we hear next to nothing about this group of men? Well, I believe it is because they were busy. They were the ones who could resist poisonings, raise the dead, work the miracles, testify first hand to the incarnation and blessed resurrection. Tradition tells us that each - to a man - died for this foundational work. We have prophets in the church today ..... but their ministry reflects the purposes set forth in this Ephesian passage. ; Ditto for the evangelists, pastors and teachers.
DAVEH: Thanx for your explanation, John. Do you believe we have prophets in the church today as well?
Certainly but they are not in the church for the purpose of giving new revelation ("scripture" if you will). They have enough to do, I suppose, as they function in consequence of such passages as Eph 4:11-16. I do know that the prophets that speak in our church (my wife and I) speak to the purposes implicit with a "ministry of reconciliation."
As important as Paul is, he is not one of the 12. The Chruch of Jesus Christ was founded on the work and mission of the original 12 and their names appear on the 12 foundation stones in The City from Heaven for that very reason. I do not confuse Paul and Barnabas with the 12. That they share in this foundational ministry is undeniable, however. This foundational ministry has been accomplished !! The church, in all it's imperfectons, is 2000 years old. The extended ministry is not one of a foundational nature but one of reconciliation - to which we have all been called (II Cor 5:18).DAVEH: ??? Are you suggesting Judas was more important as an apostle than Paul? Is Judas' name engraved on the foundation, and there is no room for subsequent others?No - Judas lost himself to the cause of Christ. His ministry was assigned a replacement (Acts 1). He did not received the Great Commission given to the others. He is of no consequence when it comes to the foundational work of the 12.Judas did not live long enough to receive the Commission of the Twelve nor the victory that rose up from his own betrayal.................................of course.
DAVEH: So....would his name be engraved with the other eleven? I do not think so.
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