David Miller wrote: >> John, I'm going to take a shot at this, but if you >> are tempted to attack me or prove me wrong, >> please don't. I won't respond to that. I am not >> interested in debate, but in truth.
John wrote: > Fair enough. Monologue is not necessarily > a bad thing. You miss my point. I'm interested in dialogue, not monologue. Let's try and work together, think together, rather than attack each other. I think you agree with me on this approach. Let's try and make it happen. David Miller wrote: >> I'm going to use different words for a reason, not to discredit >> you, but to engage you to explain your viewpoint with different >> words. What you are trying to say is only approximated by the >> words you use, so being free to consider the use of different >> words to say what you are trying to say can facilitate communication. John wrote: > "Engage ?? !!" Yes, John, engage. It is a mutual community kind of thing. John wrote: > Absolute truth over there on the desk, me and > educational bias, by pathetic childhood, my > disappointments and the many wonderful experience > that are a part of me -- all of that over here. > Over there verses over here. I know that "over > here," all of those influences mentioned above make > it impossible for me to say that my understanding of > what I read in the Bible rises to the level of infallibility !!! . Why, John? Surely you do not think that the Bible is so complicated that none of us can possibly understand it. Let's consider one truth regarding infallibility. Consider the concept that Jesus is the Messiah. You read this in the Bible. You receive an understanding of it. In fact, you receive not just a personal understanding of it, but something in your heart is triggered and you actually see something internally, that Jesus is your Lord and your God. He *IS* Messiah. Is this truth not infallible? Is not your understanding of this truth infallible? Can you not declare this truth with all confidence, putting your very life on the line in regards to its truthfulness? John wrote: > Absolute truth over there - the conceit > of the claim of infallibility over here. >From my perspective, as long as you leave the absolute truth over there and never incorporate it into yourself, into your Spirit, you are missing the whole point of what Christ came to do. The role of the Holy Spirit, of being baptized in the Holy Spirit, is precisely to move that truth from over there in that book into your heart. Rather than it being a collection of words written with ink on paper, it becomes the Living Word of God living within your heart. That truth becomes a part of you. It becomes inseparable from you and from who you are. When this happens, how can it not affect you in such a way that your understanding on some matters (not all matters) becomes certain and infallible? David Miller wrote: >> You have defined pride as being a confidence >> in our personal understanding of truth John interjects: > that rises to the level of infallibility (always say this > when presenting MY opinion on this subject) Fine, John. We are talking about a confidence that rises to the level of infallibility, a confidence that we know that the truth we comprehend cannot be in error. We are dealing with the question of whether or not we can KNOW truth. The question is, can our understanding be such that we know we are not wrong about a particular matter, or is our understanding always natural like that of the scientist, leading us to an understanding that is always tentative and subject to change? Am I right in saying that my view is that we can know truth and have an understanding that rises to the level of infallibility, but your view is that we can never be 100% certain of truth? Peace be with you. David Miller. ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
