Re: [TruthTalk] Is a Mormon a Christian?

[Dave]

This poses  a problem of inconsistency, can you rectify this problem? DAVEH:  Sure Kevin.  You are trying to make the term pagan fit your perceived need to define somebody (me) in a way that differentiates me from you.     If you want to use the term pagan as you've defined it below, it seems one prominent condition needs to be met to define one as a pagan.  That he (the pagan) worships false gods.....interestingly, they used the term gods as in plural.  Does that mean that a person who worships only one false god does not fall within the definition of pagan?     Since Mormons worship the only true God, they would view themselves not as pagan at all.     However, could that not lead one to ponder whether those who worship a trinitarian God might be considered Pagan?  Is it possible to have a true God that is undefined, or perhaps incorrectly defined?  By obfuscating the nature of God as is done in defining him in a trinitarian sense, does it not make knowing God a bit difficult?  IOW, can one really know God if he is defined either paradoxically, or mysteriously....not to mention incompletely?     IMHO, those who adopt a Trinitarian perspective are inadvertently introducing paganism into their theological paradigm.  As I've said before, the nature of the T-Doctrine is meant to obfuscate rather than enlighten.  I believe it was contrived for political purposes, and in order to bring together a diverse group of believers, it attempts to make deity into a multi faceted person that is obscured by paradox and mystery.     Then there is the guilt by association aspect.  Do you observe Christmas or Easter celebrations, Kevin?  Were they not rooted in pagan holidays?  Does participating in such taint one as a pagan?  As Judge Dean posed the question.....If not why would it be wrong to call one who practices Pagan belief a Pagan?.....the answer is that most Christians would think it silly to presume a guilt by association philosophy in the instance of turning a pagan holiday into a Christian holiday.  (Though I think there are some sects that do eschew such holidays due to their pagan roots.  I wonder if they consider mainstream Christians to be pagan....)     Now let me say that just because you worship a Triune God that you do not fully understand or that you might celebrate Christmas Kevin, that does not mean that I consider you to be a pagan.  I will let the Lord judge your commitment to him....or, whether to other gods, viz. self perceived power, arrogance, pride, self aggrandizement, etc.  Your relationship with God is between you and Him, and I don't feel compelled to judge you in that respect.  I am not the judge of whether or not you are a Christian, pagan or anything else, except possibly a SPer and member of TT.  I do feel pretty confident making that observation!   :-)     It appears to me that some TTers who believe I am a pagan have read some anti-Mormon comments that have used comments by other LDS folks to make assumptions about what they think I believe.  Sometimes those assumptions are correct, but many times they are not.  Ultimately, it seems some folks want to try to draw a line around their perception of what God is to separate those who view God from another perspective on the outside that circle....and then call them pagans to isolate them, because they do not fit the profile of one who believes as the person within that circle.  I think that pretty well describes the attitude of the folks Jesus referred to in Mt 7:21-23. Kevin Deegan wrote: Due to your suggestion on Christian in the dictionary, I now have a problem because to remain consistent I check the definition of Pagan. Since a Pagan can not be a Christian then one can not logically be a member of both groups. This poses  a problem of inconsistency, can you rectify this problem?   Should we just use selective definitions? Perhaps use just the kinder gentler definitions on a consensus basis?   PA'GAN, a. Heathen; heathenish; Gentile; noting a person who worships false gods. 1. Pertaining to the worship of false gods.   David Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Judy wrote: > What reason would anyone on TT have > to assume that a lifelong Mormon is also > a Christian? Following is how my dictionary defines a Christian: Chris·tian noun (plural Chris·tians) 1. believer in Jesus Christ as savior: somebody who believes that Jesus Christ was sent to the world by God to save humanity, and who tries to follow his teachings and example If we accept the secular definition of believer as somebody who believes in the teachings of a particular religious faith, then from my perspective, Mormonism falls into this category of Christian. This does not mean that they have the right belief system, or that any of them will be saved. It simply places them in the Christian category, as a religious sect that is centered on the idea that Jesus Christ is the Savior sent by God to save humanity. There are false sects within Christianity, and I think the Mormon sects are among them. David Miller. -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... 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