Early this morning CNN’s Matthew Chance did get out and about, and had a riveting video report on the aftermath for a Russian column that had been repulsed from an advance on the Capital over a bridge. He showed tanks and trucks and armored vehicles completely destroyed (by those American Javelins Trump tried to use to extort fake dirt on the Bidens 3 years ago?). He alluded to dead Russian bodies he did not want to show, then (inadvertently I am prepared to believe) did come up on a dead Russian that was shown briefly, and now I have seen the piece rerun at least once, so I guess that did not violate CNN policy too much. The piece also showed him crouching down, then realizing he was inches from an unexploded grenade and moving away with deliberate speed.
It was pretty valid news, and very good TV. I’m sure CNN will repeat it if ten throughout today. I admit to not having a good understanding of what a streaming-dominant television world will look like. I am not sure how linear news divisions could be maintained without a critical sized audience. aBC can always have talking heads and broadcast video it gets from others, but whatever vestige remains of an actual news gathering operation could not be maintained if it only had sizable numbers of viewers during intermediate crises. Maybe streaming networks will be able to support real news divisions in the future, but my experience with Netflix like operations has not included many live programs. Lives sporting events is the exception, but those are set pieces, relatively passive. Will a day come when one of the options on Amazon or Netflix or Disney is a live Newscast? Adam’s point about the need for a “filter” is precisely what I have been trying to say. I too have spent a lot of time clicking on Twitter IDs and then trying to research the credibility of the source. Consumers of News should not have to function as producers and editors and fact checkers. It reminds me of my experience at work, with patients coming in having diagnosed themselves and created their own treatment plans from cursory Google searches. If my use of the internet to get information about breaking news events is as accurate as what my patients bring to me about their own mental health, we are in big trouble. Plus, I find that the more a conclusion is the result of one’s own internet searching, the more stubborn one is to hang on to them, even in the face of contradictory expert judgement. Indeed, the whole culture and spirit of the Internet seems to be aimed at freeing people from the tyranny if “experts” - aka people who know what the hell they are talking about. We have seen the harvest if this approach in Vaccine denial. On Mon, 28 Feb 2022 at 2:48 AM Adam Bowie <a...@adambowie.co.uk> wrote: > Obviously opinions vary considerably on what we want from news, and the TV > news options I get here are different to most of this group's. > > Pgage wrote: > > "What would happen if there were no more “linear” television outlets on > stories like these? I read the papers often during the day, and the AP, and > Twitter, but there would be a huge hole without television news > organizations with ongoing assets in the field. Will Amazon or Hulu be > doing that down the road? I guess I will have to get CNN+" > > My feeling is that linear news channels will continue as we move to > streaming, just as we are already beginning to watch live streams of > sports. CNN+ is an oddity because it's clearly an interim service that > Warner-Discovery (or whatever they're called today) has to have separate to > the main channel because of those lucrative cable revenues. But at some > point down the line, normal CNN (and the likes of regular ESPN) will become > a streaming option and it'll be where we go to if we want live > up-to-the-minute news coverage. See also BBC World News, Sky News, > Euronews, Al Jazeera and whatever else. > > twolper wrote: > > "If I think about how the news stations are going to cover the invasion I > know they are going to talk about how it’s going to affect the upcoming US > elections. I lived in Israel for years and I remember cable TV came with > CNN International. If something big happened locally and I turned on CNN to > see their coverage, it was about how the event would affect Americans or US > foreign policy." > > To be fair, I don't think CNN is alone in this. Watching the domestic BBC > News, there are reports about what this will mean for British households. > Fuel price increases in the main - and we're already facing some massive > spikes in those ahead of this conflict. But that's a real concern, and you > do need to explain to audiences why a dispute that is happening many > thousands of miles away from your shores is going to impact you. Obviously, > you wouldn't probably shouldn't lead on this with your global facing > services. But then even CNN International simulcasts a lot of regular CNN. > The big primetime shows all go out in Europe's late night timeslots. And > during massive conflicts, CNN, like the BBC, merge their domestic and > global services into a single stream. > > If I ignore those primetime shows, which are definitely from a US-angle, I > don't think CNN International is too US-skewed. I get more irked to be > honest when I've watched ABC's "World" News Tonight and realised that > "World" has a very different meaning in that context :-) > > Kevin wrote: > > "Experts are now available online without a network filter. Survivor and > victim accounts are also available." > > To be honest, I do want, and need a filter. There are some amazing experts > online, but there are also lots of people with specific > issues/grievances/angles, and it can be hard to determine which reports I > should trust. I find I'm regularly clicking through to people's Twitter > profiles and seeing if they look like they might know something based on > that. Do they have a verified tick? Are they working for some organisation > that has some credibility? It's really hard. This person may be the best > expert on Ukraine/Russian diplomatic relations in the world, but I need > someone to help me determine that. There are plenty of people just blindly > retweeting other things, and while I "vet" who I follow fairly closely to > get rid of people who retweet or share nonsense, that takes time and > effort. It's not that dissimilar to trying to work out whether someone > really knows about Covid or whether they're just an armchair-immunologist. > (I should note that there absolutely cases where armchair experts have > become real experts. I'm thinking of organisations like Bellingcat who have > used open source material from social media, Google maps and so on to break > real stories. They're doing some good work proving fabrications and "false > flag" stories that are being planted currently. Many of the folks there > started out as complete amateurs. So it is possible. It's just that it's > hard for me to make that determination.) > > Given we live in a world where people are completely happy to believe > something they read from someone's friend of a friend on Facebook, but not > believe something they saw on network television, I'm not sure that most of > the population are as discriminating or media savvy as they need to be. > > Pgate wrote: > > "I suspect both traditional and non traditional reports are getting > carried away with the romanticism of David standing up to Goliath, and > creating an expectation that somehow Ukraine is going to win this war in > some kind of movie ending. Sadly that still seems unlikely." > > While there's a bit of this, most of the commentators I've seen have been > darkly warning that worse is yet to come. Ukrainian leaders may be making > online videos to show how to make Molotov cocktails, but I don't think > anyone really thinks that they'll be much use in the longer term against > the might of Russian weaponry. > > > > Adam > > > On Mon, Feb 28, 2022 at 5:24 AM PGage <pga...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> So, I am uncomfortable in the role of defending TV news, as I agree with >> the sorry state it is in. I have not been watching cable news continuously >> since the invasion, but every 3-4 hours I watch for about 30 min. I have >> not seen even one minute of discussion of how it will effect midterm or >> presidential elections, or even Biden’s poll numbers. I wouldn’t be >> surprised if they have had segments like this, but not often enough that my >> sampling has hit it. The closest I have seen is a segment on Trump at CPAC, >> and his comments on Putin and Biden. >> >> In the early days the story was about the resolve of the Ukrainian >> people, and of their President. I thought TV News got this right, got it >> right early, and before it was conventional wisdom. Another story they have >> covered well is the refugees, and how they have been helped at all of the >> European borders. The last couple of days a key story has been how the EU >> countries have changed what appeared to be deeply entrenched positions on >> limiting sanctions on Russia and military aid to Ukraine. TV News has done >> a good job of reporting the outcomes, but newspapers have done the real >> work of reporting the process, see for example great WaPo story on how >> Zelensky personally convinced the German Chancellor to change his mind in a >> video call to the EU meeting from the front lines: >> >> >> https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2022/02/27/russia-ukraine-sanctions-swift-central-bank/ >> >> Where I think TV has surprisingly not done a very good job is actually >> tracking the real time progress of the various Russian lines of advance. >> All three of the outlets I have been monitoring seem to mostly have >> reporters in fixed positions observing street intersections or buildings. >> They get excited when they get audio of missals hitting, or air raid >> alarms, or fires, but otherwise they mostly say things like “reports are >> that the Russians are moving up from XXX”, or “the Russian advance is >> slower than expected”, or “The Capital is still under the control of >> Ukrainians”. >> >> Online you can find more specific reports (locals destroying bridges, >> heated battles at specific locations), but this is where you also get a lot >> of conflicting reports. >> >> I suspect both traditional and non traditional reports are getting >> carried away with the romanticism of David standing up to Goliath, and >> creating an expectation that somehow Ukraine is going to win this war in >> some kind of movie ending. Sadly that still seems unlikely. >> >> >> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 at 6:31 PM <twol...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> I’m with Kevin on the state of US TV news. If I think about how the news >>> stations are going to cover the invasion I know they are going to talk >>> about how it’s going to affect the upcoming US elections. I lived in Israel >>> for years and I remember cable TV came with CNN International. If something >>> big happened locally and I turned on CNN to see their coverage, it was >>> about how the event would affect Americans or US foreign policy. >>> >>> I followed the Afghanistan and Iraq invasions closely in both the >>> newspapers and on TV. From day to day there wasn’t a whole lot new to cover >>> and in retrospect they missed the story in a big way. I don’t trust them to >>> get this story right. >>> >>> On Feb 27, 2022, at 9:10 PM, Kevin M. <drunkbastar...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> You make my point for me. Experts are now available online without a >>> network filter. Survivor and victim accounts are also available. If I’m >>> going to try to stomach Don Lemon or Rachel Maddow, they need to offer >>> something I can’t get elsewhere. >>> >>> Like you, I’ve turned to TV during Breaking News throughout my life, >>> too. But now I not only don’t miss it, but feel I’m better informed by >>> virtue of not watching it. >>> >>> On Sun, Feb 27, 2022 at 6:04 PM PGage <pga...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> While there is something to your critique, I think it is overly harsh. >>>> I have seen several recognized experts on both Russia and Ukraine >>>> interviewed many times, providing both general context but also targeted >>>> context and analysis if minute by minute events. They have interviewed >>>> Ukrainians getting out, and those staying. They have video, and interviews, >>>> with officials from surrounding nations, NATO, and the EU. Yes, I have seen >>>> much of this online as well, but television news has, during my lifetime, >>>> been an import supplement to print journalism, and institutional, legacy >>>> media are an essential counterweight to much of the freelance reporting one >>>> sees on Social Media, which has less concern with its reputation and >>>> credibility. >>>> >>>> I’m not saying we would be blind without linear television news, but >>>> there would be a hole. >>>> >>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 at 5:54 PM Kevin M. <drunkbastar...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sun, Feb 27, 2022 at 1:47 PM PGage <pga...@gmail.com> wrote >>>>> . >>>>> >>>>>> . >>>>>> >>>>>> What would happen if there were no more “linear” television outlets >>>>>> on stories like these? I read the papers often during the day, and the >>>>>> AP, >>>>>> and Twitter, but there would be a huge hole without television news >>>>>> organizations with ongoing assets in the field. Will Amazon or Hulu be >>>>>> doing that down the road? I guess I will have to get CNN+ >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Really? A huge hole? What context are TV news providing? What, other >>>>> than the instantaneous visuals of explosions, are they contributing to the >>>>> story? I’m unaware of any experts on Ukraine employed by CNN or MSNBC… >>>>> they >>>>> might exist, but I can’t imagine they prepared for this eventuality, even >>>>> though Putin has been preparing for this for more than a decade so they >>>>> had >>>>> plenty of time to develop sources and establish solid connections to the >>>>> region. >>>>> >>>>> I haven’t watched any TV coverage, and I don’t feel I’m missing out. I >>>>> have friends in the area, so I can see any immediate events on social >>>>> media. For context there are stories from AP and BBC. Both NPR and >>>>> MarketPlace have done a decent job explaining the impact of war in the >>>>> region on US economy and life. I fail to see any advantage in whatever CNN >>>>> or MSNBC might be bloviating about. >>>>> >>>>> I’m taking this war personally. I was in Kazakhstan 20 years ago when >>>>> Putin murdered a school full of men, women, and children in Beslan. And I >>>>> watched when he attacked Crimea. And Georgia. He’s patient and methodical, >>>>> and the so called international community has let him get away with this >>>>> crap over and over again. The US isn’t a moral leader anymore, and we’re >>>>> on >>>>> the cusp of ceasing to be a superpower, but we could still be acting >>>>> against Putin with more than economic sanctions. As could a dozen other >>>>> nations. >>>>> >>>>> Putin won’t stop until he’s forcibly removed from office or >>>>> assassinated. That’s the reality. Even if he’s convinced to stop attacking >>>>> Ukraine, he will shift targets or wait until we are distracted and strike >>>>> again. The TV news media is too dumbed down and too political to cover >>>>> this >>>>> situation with any degree of quality or depth. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>>> Sent from Gmail Mobile >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAKGtkYK7D6hT7SF-BOS%3DS233RxsL1BNG4OfO75UA1YqqpXS7dQ%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAKGtkYK7D6hT7SF-BOS%3DS233RxsL1BNG4OfO75UA1YqqpXS7dQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>> . >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Kevin M. (RPCV) >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAKgmY4BWhG%2BRHxKsoPxmuUw1hcKG99hVBDy-S0hcUres_z9V%3DQ%40mail.gmail.com >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAKgmY4BWhG%2BRHxKsoPxmuUw1hcKG99hVBDy-S0hcUres_z9V%3DQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>> . >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> Sent from Gmail Mobile >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAKGtkYKwPP1v4U8RpOdLvLb5s%2BEOtR6uFiGb9k3AGud89-K5jg%40mail.gmail.com >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAKGtkYKwPP1v4U8RpOdLvLb5s%2BEOtR6uFiGb9k3AGud89-K5jg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> >>> -- >>> Kevin M. (RPCV) >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAKgmY4Dc%3D1UUpj6x-a6cxpYa2QugqY%3D9j-Nksz8O9LjG7UhLbw%40mail.gmail.com >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAKgmY4Dc%3D1UUpj6x-a6cxpYa2QugqY%3D9j-Nksz8O9LjG7UhLbw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/3868998F-5277-49C1-93D0-7C0A30FC5947%40gmail.com >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/3868998F-5277-49C1-93D0-7C0A30FC5947%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >> -- >> Sent from Gmail Mobile >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "TVorNotTV" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> > To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAKGtkY%2BCHvpxJdNYM1Fu-L1Ph8aG9%2B09oZV%2Be7M9WptXfm-K7A%40mail.gmail.com >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAKGtkY%2BCHvpxJdNYM1Fu-L1Ph8aG9%2B09oZV%2Be7M9WptXfm-K7A%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "TVorNotTV" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAD_sJGDX_45oH6f%3DrCGpG5r8NRyPLaD5258vOaLNsY1%2BAuCSbg%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAD_sJGDX_45oH6f%3DrCGpG5r8NRyPLaD5258vOaLNsY1%2BAuCSbg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- Sent from Gmail Mobile -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVorNotTV" group. 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