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On Tue, 23 Sept 2025 at 17:45, Derek Dreyer <[email protected]> wrote: > AFAIK, all the major SIGPLAN conferences already provide a remote option > for virtual participation. It is possible that there have been exceptions, > but that is the post-Covid/PACMPL norm. > I did hear of a recent exception. Also (outside SIGPLAN, of course), I see SOSP has a policy that requires special permission from the PC chairs for remote presentation. > I'm not sure what you're proposing re: geographically distributing paper > presentations -- what is "vire"? -- but it sounds complicated. > To let authors of accepted papers defer presentation to a future more-accessible-to-them SIGPLAN conference, much as we do for TOPLAS. If that turned out fairly uncommon, it'd be relatively easy to accommodate. But even if not, maybe we should. ("vire": to transfer funds between budgets, here used loosely. Bizarrely, that sense is not in the OED, even though it's common) Peter > > Derek > > On Tue, Sep 23, 2025 at 6:19 PM Peter Sewell <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Straightforwardly actionable, and I think a no-brainer: we can ensure >> that remote participation is (imperfect though it is) uniformly available. >> >> Not completely straightforward logistically, but I imagine doable: we >> could allow authors to freely vire paper presentations among the SIGPLAN >> conferences, and ensure that those are geographically distributed. There'd >> be some hit to the the character and critical-mass-of-related-people, but >> that might well be worthwhile. >> >> Peter >> >> >> On Tue, 23 Sept 2025 at 17:10, Derek Dreyer <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> [ The Types Forum, >>> http://lists.seas.upenn.edu/mailman/listinfo/types-list ] >>> >>> Thanks for the lively discussion about this issue. However, I'm afraid I >>> must disagree with the opinions posted so far that advocated for >>> (temporarily) abandoning conferences in the US. >>> >>> Of course, many people in our community are understandably upset because >>> of >>> the actions of the Trump administration and its effect on immigration and >>> research. I, too, am very upset about it (to put it mildly). >>> >>> But it seems to me there are multiple different issues being conflated in >>> Gabriel's original post, and the proposed cure is worse than the disease. >>> In particular, he wrote: "It is pretty clear that the US are not a safe >>> place for universities right now, and also unpalatable-to-unsafe for >>> people >>> (especially foreigners) working in universities." >>> >>> Concerning the point that the US is not a safe place for universities: I >>> am >>> not exactly sure what he meant, but I assume he meant that universities >>> are >>> suffering under the major funding cuts and generally threatening behavior >>> of the Trump administration. This is certainly true. However, it is not >>> clear to me how holding an academic conference outside the US for a >>> couple >>> years will sway Trump to do something different. Furthermore, when >>> considering other conference locations, I do not recall it ever having >>> been >>> a priority to select locations based on whether the local government was >>> particularly supportive of science. Even in its diminished state, the US >>> government will still be a major contributor to global research funding. >>> >>> Concerning the point that the US is "unpalatable-to-unsafe for people >>> (especially foreigners) working in universities", I again am not >>> completely >>> sure what this is referring to. If this is referring to non-US citizens >>> working in universities in the US, who might have their visas revoked on >>> whatever proclamation Trump thinks up tomorrow, yes, this is really bad. >>> But as has already been noted by Julia and others, it is *much* easier >>> for >>> those people to attend conferences in the US than elsewhere. If on the >>> other hand this is referring to people travelling to the US for the >>> conference, I heard a few horror stories earlier this year, but I have >>> not >>> seen evidence that there is widespread harassment of academics entering >>> the >>> US for a conference. So I think the chance of encountering a problem is >>> very low. But I agree that this is a valid cause for concern, and I can >>> understand if people are hesitant to travel to the US because of it. >>> >>> Others on the thread have suggested improving our virtual conference >>> participation options so that US researchers can participate even if the >>> event is held elsewhere. I am all for improving virtual conference >>> participation, but we had several years of experimentation with that >>> during >>> the pandemic, and in the end the verdict seemed to be that it didn't >>> really >>> work. At least it is not a replacement for in-person participation. >>> But I >>> think if people are motivated enough, and enough people do not want to >>> travel to the US for conferences, then it would be a great idea to >>> experiment with satellite meetings, also for climate reasons. >>> >>> In summary, given that a very significant portion of our community >>> includes >>> people working at US universities, I think that we should not abandon >>> conferences in the US entirely. We could, however, consider reducing the >>> frequency with which conferences are located in the US (e.g. to no more >>> than 1/2 or some smaller fraction of the time), as well as exploring >>> complementary options like satellite meetings. >>> >>> Best wishes, >>> Derek >>> >>> P.S. In response to Artem's question, I would not consider the discussion >>> on this list to necessarily be representative of the "stance" of the PL >>> community on this issue. It may be worth gauging the stance of the >>> research community, but that may be best done with post-conference >>> surveys >>> at some upcoming SIGPLAN conferences. >>> >>> On Tue, Sep 23, 2025 at 5:17 PM Artem Shinkarov <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> > [ The Types Forum, >>> http://lists.seas.upenn.edu/mailman/listinfo/types-list >>> > ] >>> > >>> > Hi >>> > >>> > It appears that the argument regarding being "trapped in" is diverting >>> the >>> > discussion from the intent of the original post: the toxic attitude of >>> the >>> > US towards research and researchers, which requires action from the >>> > research community. Ban on conferences in the US could serve as a >>> > meaningful statement or gesture that we ought to consider. >>> > >>> > The issue of being "trapped in" is indeed one of the drawbacks >>> highlighted >>> > in the original post. However, this situation is not unique to the US; >>> > similar challenges arise in other countries as well. For instance, >>> > individuals on visas in the UK may find themselves unable to travel to >>> > Europe, the US, and beyond. As noted in previous discussions, we can >>> > address this issue by ensuring adequate online participation and >>> exploring >>> > the possibility of satellite events. Nevertheless, the crucial question >>> > remains: is the research community prepared to express its stance on >>> this >>> > matter, and what is the most effective way to do so? >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > Cheers, >>> > Artem >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > On Tuesday, September 23rd, 2025 at 1:36 PM, Niki Vazou < >>> > [email protected]> wrote: >>> > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > [ The Types Forum, >>> > http://lists.seas.upenn.edu/mailman/listinfo/types-list ] >>> > > >>> > > Hey, >>> > > >>> > > I also agree that moving is getting more complicated (both for the >>> > > geopolitical events and the environment...) >>> > > So, maybe a good alternative would be, in parallel to the main >>> event, to >>> > > have satellite events. For example, when a conference happens in >>> USA, to >>> > > have participants gather in another country to attend/participate. >>> > > >>> > > Best, >>> > > Niki >>> > > >>> > > On Mon, Sep 22, 2025 at 5:35 PM Julia Belyakova [email protected] >>> wrote: >>> > > >>> > > > [ The Types Forum, >>> > http://lists.seas.upenn.edu/mailman/listinfo/types-list >>> > > > ] >>> > > > >>> > > > I don't disagree that the US is not a welcome destination for many >>> > people >>> > > > right now. >>> > > > >>> > > > I did want to point out the existence of the trapped-in-the-US >>> > > > international community because in my experience, a lot of people, >>> > > > understandably, are not aware of this phenomenon. >>> > > > >>> > > > In general, there are many reasons why an individual cannot travel >>> to a >>> > > > particular location, be it the US or another country. >>> > > > >>> > > > To be constructive, I would like to amplify an alternative >>> suggestion >>> > > > discussed in Zulip, which is to have an explicit policy for >>> presenting >>> > the >>> > > > paper at a different conference that is held in a more suitable >>> > location >>> > > > for the author. Similar to what SIGPLAN-track has been doing at >>> SPLASH. >>> > > > >>> > > > Of course, it would require more coordination across the >>> conferences >>> > and an >>> > > > additional logistics burden on organizers. >>> > > > >>> > > > -- >>> > > > Kind regards, Julia >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > >>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://julbinb.github.io/__;!!IBzWLUs!WAX7xyBsdZT3oMFK0lm5dFmak5nvWszH_Tt-tl_8MyRugaEYzh3Sm-WminTMTReV3LLNlPUOJIjBk-3FDMWtDsPMfds$ >>> > > > >>> > > > On Mon, Sep 22, 2025, 12:27 AM Sanjiva Prasad >>> [email protected] >>> > > > wrote: >>> > > > >>> > > > > So ia=s my son (for INS reasons) -- could not attend ECOOP or CAV >>> > this >>> > > > > year where he had best papers. >>> > > > > >>> > > > > But computer science is not a US monopoly (not even in ACM now, >>> > though >>> > > > > registered in the US). >>> > > > > It costs Indians and Chinese and some others USD250 over the visa >>> > costs >>> > > > > just to enter the US. >>> > > > > Am not saying that getting into Europe or India is easier, but >>> US is >>> > not >>> > > > > a welcome destination for many right now. >>> > > > > >>> > > > > On 22/09/25 04:18, Julia Belyakova wrote: >>> > > > > >>> > > > > > [ The Types Forum, >>> > > > > > http://lists.seas.upenn.edu/mailman/listinfo/types-list ] >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > I understand this position but just want to remind that there >>> are >>> > many >>> > > > > > international students and professionals in the community who >>> are >>> > stuck >>> > > > > > inside the US and cannot cross the border, even to go Canada. >>> > > > > > >>> > > > > > I, for one, have been stuck in the US since 2020. >>> > > > > >>> > > > > -- >>> > > > > Sanjiva Prasad >>> > > > > Professor, Department of Computer Science and Engineering >>> > > > > Indian Institute of Technology Delhi (IIT Delhi) >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > -- >>> > > Niki Vazou >>> > >>> >>
