Susan, As a contractor, I agree completely about getting a sign off on specs. I have been in that boat too. The same is true if you have super-users who may not really be that super.
In my current position (on-staff code-monkey), the level of trust is very high between the U2 team and the super-users. It is my job to ask the right questions, present the options/risks/etc, and propose additional benefits at that time. I never make any changes of note w/o bashing out the situation with the super-users first. It is also my job to bring up any unforeseen issues that occurs as the coding takes shape. I will never retire! I will die with one hand on the keyboard and a Dt. Dew in the other. John Israel Senior Programmer/Analyst Dayton Superior Corporation -----Original Message----- From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Susan Lynch Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 12:35 PM To: U2 Users List Subject: Re: [U2] Unibasic: Sample program - to extract data from Table John, I agree that listening to the super users is critical. However, writing a detailed spec will give those super users the ability to review the spec, add their 'second thoughts' (and the "wow, this is really cool - could it also do this?" ideas before the files are designed and the code written, and really does not take a lot of time. It ensures that the coding team all understand all the aspects of the project the same way. So even with super users, I always waited for a sign-off on the detailed spec before laying out the files and writing the code. I had clients that I worked with for years, and knew their business very well, but taking the time to write a detailed spec was never a waste of my time. I am glad for you that your system works well, but I hope I never have to come in after you all retire! ;-) Susan Lynch ----- Original Message ----- From: "Israel, John R." <johnisr...@daytonsuperior.com> To: "U2 Users List" <u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org> Sent: 10/14/2009 12:14 PM Subject: Re: [U2] Unibasic: Sample program - to extract data from Table > You cannot buy knowledge of a business. Experience with a technology: > yes. Knowledge of how a specific company works: no. That only comes with > time working at that site. > > A key to our success is having super-users that really know how the > business works, how the software works, and the ability to clearly > describe how they want things enhanced. The other half of this coin is > having programmer/analysts that understand what the user wants, where the > data is stored (or will need to be stored), who ask the right questions, > and can work with those super-users. Our users are very happy with what > we produce. We have a small U2 team, but a well seasoned team. > > I rarely have specs and never very detailed. It is all screen shots with > hand written notes that come from a meeting or two with the super-users. > Requests from non-super-users must go through the super-users. It is my > job to understand what they want (which is usually, but not always what > they ask for). > > However, not every business will have these conditions. Contractors have > it even tougher since they may have little knowledge of the business they > are trying to help. > > Just my experience... > > > > John Israel > > > -----Original Message----- > From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org > [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Susan Lynch > Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 12:00 PM > To: U2 Users List > Subject: Re: [U2] Unibasic: Sample program - to extract data from Table > > As a programmer who has had to maintain and enhance systems that were > written apparently based on a one-page spec that "everyone on the team" > understood, when the team members are no longer there, and the > documentation > was all between their ears (and left with them), I am a big believer in > detailed written specs that get turned into test plans and then into > documentation. > > Eventually the lack of specs turns around and bites the organization that > allowed it to happen (unless the application was a one-time > quick-and-dirty > project that will never have to be resurrected). > > Susan Lynch > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "jpb-u2ug" <jpb-u...@hotmail.com> > To: "'U2 Users List'" <u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org> > Sent: 10/14/2009 8:18 AM > Subject: Re: [U2] Unibasic: Sample program - to extract data from Table > > >> Alleluia! Brother! >> >> Jerry Banker >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org >> [mailto:u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Symeon Breen >> Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 5:00 AM >> To: 'U2 Users List' >> Subject: Re: [U2] Unibasic: Sample program - to extract data from Table >> >> Exactly - i still stick to the belief that a small team of highly skilled >> programmers will code quicker from a single page spec than a thousand low >> quality coders using a high detail spec. Many an institution disagrees, >> or >> rather has been stung by smaller teams giving promises that they can then >> not deliver, I suppose this is what bureaucracy is all about, something >> simple runs perfectly until someone slips up, then all hell breaks loose >> and >> 15 procedures are put into place and before you know it you have a team >> of >> 20 doing what one guy did all on his own. >> > > _______________________________________________ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > > _______________________________________________ > U2-Users mailing list > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users > > _______________________________________________ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users _______________________________________________ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
