I think it also depends on a lot on the toolset you are using. This approach, if you are writing code in pure pick basic, with minimal dictionaries for the files you are using could be suicidal, yet with the right tools and mindset, this can be a VERY productive way of working. In this regard, I firmly agree with what Phil said in relation to his BI implementations - often it is far quicker to "just do it" than to describe what "it" is
We have dubbed our implementation of agile, iterative development vRapid, and we have found it works very well in practice. Sit down with the customer, discover the data that needs to be (or is already being) kept and design some files and dictionaries around that. Document the inter-relationships as part of the Dictionary, and mock up some screens with these data definitions. These screens get fattened out & appropriate business logic engaged during the iterative process, and in little more than the time it would take to develop a traditional spec you can have a fully functional application .... and the client has been engaged 100% during the whole process, so there are no surprises, and they are VERY HAPPY (and because they have seen how easy it is to accommodate change, the application IS likely to keep on growing organically, but this is "controlled feature creep" that you get paid for!) With the right framework in place, this approach can be a real winner, and deliverables can start to flow & be deployed long before the entire project is complete, so it can become a win/win situation Ross Ferris Stamina Software Visage > Better by Design! >-----Original Message----- >From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users- >boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of phil walker >Sent: Thursday, 15 October 2009 6:56 AM >To: U2 Users List >Subject: Re: [U2] Unibasic: Sample Program > >I agree, agile and scrum are the way to go.... > >However, this is not just a term for no specifications and an open ended >project. > >This methodology requires a commitment of time and effort by all >parties, most importantly a dedicated person from the business tied to >the project who has a stake in the project, not just a BA or someone who >cannot directly or quickly make decisions about what direction or >priorities the project should take. This person, is responsible for >seeing that the project delivers what the business requires quickly and >iteratively...therefore lessoning any chance that is does not deliver >what and when. > >If this happens then the project will deliver what the business requires >when it is completed. (at least that phase). This in contrast to a lot >off waterfall style projects where the business does not often know what >they need, at least in detail and so a spec is just a best guess. If not >then it will take a very long time to get it 99% accurate with no >payback for the business, (it will never be 100% unless the project is >very simple). Consequently, there will always change control issues, >debate about who should pay for the change etc...very unproductive...as >well as a BA who is acting as a translator between IT and the business. > >While a spec, might be technical documentation, it requires a lot of >effort on the part of everyone to write it but more importantly to >maintain it going forward...as I find when the going gets tough and time >and money is short...documentation is the first to go, a decision made >by who is paying the bills not anyone elses...This is where agile and >scrum come to the fore...however it does require a culture change within >the entire organization to that of a shared partnership between all >parties striving for the betterment of the business rather than a >confrontational approach which a formal spec signoff/ contract >represents... > >My 2 cents. > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users- >> boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Brenda Price >> Sent: Thursday, 15 October 2009 8:31 a.m. >> To: U2 Users List >> Subject: Re: [U2] Unibasic: Sample Program >> >> Well, when our company gets this fully implemented. You can count >over >> 250 Highlander's Immortals on the list! >> >> Seriously, check out "agile" and "scrum", it is interesting. >> >> Brenda L Price >> UniVerse Programmer >> Rapid Response Team >> Market America, Inc. >> Greensboro, NC >> >> >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: u2-users-boun...@listserver.u2ug.org [mailto:u2-users- >> > boun...@listserver.u2ug.org] On Behalf Of Susan Lynch >> > Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2009 3:26 PM >> > To: U2 Users List >> > Subject: Re: [U2] Unibasic: Sample Program >> > >> > Ah, it must be lovely to know that you will live forever and will >> never >> > become ill or incapable of working... Eventually, if the company >> does >> > not >> > go out of business, or their business needs change so much that all >> > your >> > code is obsolete, somebody else will have to figure out how the >> system >> > works. >> > >> > A good spec turns into good documentation, which (properly >maintained >> > through all the ensuing changes to the system for the changing needs >> of >> > the >> > users, of course) is a blessing to the person who follows you. >> > >> > Sounds like we have at least 2 of Highlander's Immortals on the >list! >> > ;-) >> > >> > Susan Lynch >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: "Brutzman, Bill" <bi...@hkmetalcraft.com> >> > To: "U2 Users List" <u2-users@listserver.u2ug.org> >> > Sent: 10/14/2009 3:20 PM >> > Subject: Re: [U2] Unibasic: Sample Program >> > >> > >> > > >> > > John's world is similar to my world here. When I realized that I >> > would >> > > be the only person reading the specs, I stopped writing to myself. >> > At >> > > the risk of no longer being a professional dinosaur, I learned >that >> > some >> > > people call it "agile". >> > > >> > > Check out... Eckhart Tolle's book "The Power of Now". >> > > >> > > --B >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > U2-Users mailing list >> > > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org >> > > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users >> > > >> > > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > U2-Users mailing list >> > U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org >> > http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users >> _______________________________________________ >> U2-Users mailing list >> U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org >> http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users >> > >_______________________________________________ >U2-Users mailing list >U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org >http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users _______________________________________________ U2-Users mailing list U2-Users@listserver.u2ug.org http://listserver.u2ug.org/mailman/listinfo/u2-users
