Le 02/10/2013 01:45, Tim a écrit :
Either way some concerns I have
- Ubuntu will keep holding back on GNOME updates until QML/Touch stack is ready
and then just dump it
That's not going to be the case, I think that staying one release behind
is a fair tradeoff and that we should keep doing that. One reason for
the stronger pushback on the update is that, in my opinion, we should
hold back on controversial changes for the LTS. If we get some hit, from
unhappy users, after the LTS that's fine ... they can stay on the LTS or
we have time address those during the next LTS cycle.
Transitioning from 3.8 -> 3.12 would likely be a big nightmare, also if we end
up with a 2 cycle divergance, mixing packages from
different releases will become much harder than it already is.
The transition shouldn't be harder, it's basically:
- update the libs (they are api/abi compatible so it's fine)
- update the apps
- update the components like g-s-d/g-c-c in sync
That shouldn't be more complex that usually, especially if the patch
rebasing work happening in a ppa during that cycle
- We will most likely need to transition ubuntu GNOME to wayland at some point,
however we can't really even start on that in an experimental
capacity until 3.10 is in the archives.
Even if Ubuntu was going to go for wayland (which is not likely the
case, at least for Unity), that's enough changes that it wouldn't happen
before the coming LTS. It makes sense to start those sort of transition
at the beginning of a LTS cycle...
- There are a number of major bugs we have on the PPA's that are really outside
of our scope to fix, but as long as they are PPA only packages,
no one cares to help fixing them. Things like the Software Center crash with
updated Webkit plus a few new issues introduced with 3.10 such as
unity custom menus in GTK and the DisplayConfig needing to be implemented in
Unity.
I don't think that's true, and that's another reason for not wanting to
go with the update. Those bugs don't get ignored because they are in the
ppa, they are not addressed because nobody has spare cycle to work on
those. Landing the update in the archive would lead to a situation where
you would increase the stress level on people who are overworked
already, and wouldn't get half the bugs looked at anyway in return. It's
a no-win situation for everyone...
- Its really unlikely that we will be able to track 3.12 on a 3.8 base, we
mostly get away with 3.10 since some of the core libraries in Saucy
did get updated to 3.10 versions, however there are packages we simply can't
package on the PPA's such as glib, gvfs, cogl/clutter etc due the
massive list of rdepends. Right now we have had to revert a huge number of
patches just to get gnome-shell 3.10 running on Saucy.
Right, that's one cycle only though, I don't think it would be the end
of the world to hold back for another cycle, knowing that the net
benefit is better stability for our users
- If the PPA's end up a cycle behind and there is complete lack of wayland
support, we will likely start loosing users to Fedora etc.
To be honest I fail to see "running on wayland" as a something users
want. Especially that the current goal is to reach parity. If things go
perfectly, the next GNOME version is going to run as well on wayland
that it is on xorg. It's going to be a win for the future, but probably
not something that makes any day to day difference to users. By the time
"GNOME on wayland" is ready, the LTS is going to be out. Sure, it might
be an issue for some tech users who want to be on top of the most recent
changes, but I don't think they are the primary target of a LTS version...
Cheers,
Sebastien Bacher
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