hi, On Sa, 2016-09-10 at 13:13 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: > On Sat, 10 Sep 2016 12:38:17 +0200, Oliver Grawert wrote: > > > It is good to recycle, but it's not good the way it is done now, for > still usable gear and by exploiting the poor.
no, it is a matter how and through which organisation you recycle ...
"the way it is done now" totally depends on the way people do their
donation, give your old HW to people that can actually do something
good with it and who will get it in the right hands and you voted with
your feet, very simple.
>
> Simply donate new computers instead of giving them your old, as an
> excuse to buy a new one for yourself. They then need to do the same
> as
> you should do, use those computers as long as possible.
but they will still pile up as crap somewhere in the end.
you probably need a new computer because you need that new office
feature to open the docs of your company at home ... that feature that
was forced down your throat by a SW company ... and the new office
needs that new OS (because again ... that SW company) that new OS only
runs on newer hardware... etc etc
or you are a gamer that only buys a new graphics card every three years
instead of buying a new console every year ...
you know that our society isn't like what you dream of here, don't you
? the world isn't black and white and in the greyscale that there is,
donating your used hardware is one of the better compromises.
>
> >
> > when i was still LTSP and edubuntu upstream i worked very closely
> > with
> > [1], they actually know what they are doing and make sure to only
> > ship
> > usable bits ... they ship it to places where people live that would
> > never be able to achieve a computer at all ...
>
> But why donating old instead of new computers? Greed?
indeed everyone who donates their old hardware does that because of
greed ... that's indeed a totally logical conclusion :P
>
> > if you look at the US there are people that can hardly afford a
> > living.
> > yet [2] will enable the kids of such families to
> > a) actually learn how a computer works and
> > b) build their own one in courses to take home with them ...
> > again these are people that wouldn't have had access to a computer
> > at
> > all ...
>
> Why wouldn't the have access to computers at all. The only way in you
> mind is donating the computers that other people do not want to use?
they wouldn't have access because they cant afford one, i wrote so
above.
if you have three jobs to earn just enough to pay your rent, fill your
fridge and get your kids dressed, where would the money come from to
give them a computer ? are you saying it is better for them to not have
one at all than to re-use older hardware ?
> >
> > recycling is a matter of "done right", just saying "the whole
> > approach
> > is wrong" is very short sighted...
>
> Inform yourself about how recycling is done and when recycling makes
> really sense.
>
well, i have been at many freegeek places in the US (some close friends
work there) and as i said i worked with the linux4africa people ...
one of the reasons for me to be LTSP upstream for many years was that
you can turn old PCs into powerful thin clients with it and give them a
life for another 5-10 years ...
how much first hand knowledge of recycling do *you* actually have
beyond having read that news article/seen that documentary ? how many
people did you *meet* that could not afford a computer at all and were
overly happy to be able to build their own and take it home ...
yes, there are drawbacks in recycling if you go down to the level of
having people sitting on a trash dump dissolving PCBs with poisonous
liquids etc ... if you don't like that, simply don't do it ... go the
other route, support the recycling organisations that do something with
the hardware ...
as i wrote above, it is your choice that can fix this, vote with your
feet. if you can afford it, sure, go ahead and donate new computers...
i'll praise you for it ... but again, the world isn't just as black and
white as you paint it.
how about we stop this thread here, it isn't really ubuntu related any
more ... both our points of view are clear and apparently i cant
convince you of mine and i wont agree with yours, so lets just move on
with life before we go more off topic ...
ciao
oli
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