Mr. Semakula,
You said"
"4. The fact that none of the UPC membership spoke out for us when we were mowed down by your armed thugs, means that you all supported the policies of your party whole heartedly"
Believe me even on UGnet discussion we challenged UPC members and Adhola to remove the hate monger on UPCnet which was almost inciting genocide on Baganda, no one from UPC supported us. Matek, Akanga, Mulindwa, etc all supported Adholas idiology of the formation of UPC and the history behind it. Alittle bit was later modified on that website but still depicts Buganda and Baganda as enemies of the "rest of Uganda". Visit that page on UPCnet under history of UPC by Adhola. He put it point blank that " The rest of Uganda who had sentiments against Baganda associated under Obote to form Obote's splinter party of UPC". Those were the words in his original document which I saved on my floppy disk. Is this the party to be supported by any sane peace and freedom loving person? If the "big" majority share this kind of sentiments and idiologies on UPCnet official website, then Uganda is doomed. A "national" party attacking the nationalities of a major part of the country, to the extent of telling the world that its major aim is to REDRESS the sentiments against Baganda... Hahahaha. We are dreaaaaaaaming about peace.
Ssenyange
-------------------------------------
From: "J Ssemakula" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: ugnet_: Re: [FedsNet] UPC on Federalism Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 22:40:29 +0000
_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca
--- Begin Message -------Original Message Follows---- From: "Ocaya Margret" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [FedsNet] UPC on Federalism Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 21:13:09 +0100 Ssemakula, Oryema etal, Sometimes I wrote about Uganda civil society being quite tribalistic, this includes even Ugandan political ideology that is based on the similar throes. This is the very reason OBOTE is hated and he has become a political punch -bag by the Bantu - Hamites intelectuals as well as the illiterates! I think and I know that the likes of these fellows are not having big hatreds on the likes of the late Paul Muwangas, Samwiri Mugwisas, Suleiman Kigundus the way they hate OBOTE. This is why I belief the likes of Mw. Ssemakulas would kill OBOTE and the UPC. Why are the likes of Ssemakulas not condemning the M7s, Kintu Musokes, Bidandi Ssalis those were once UPC supporters the way they hate OBOTE? Some of us from the north, would have rather hated both the DPs, M7s, Bukenyas, Kajibwes, Besigyes etc, etc becuase they were the architects of the 19 years continuous genocide in Acoliland and the whole northern and eastern Uganda. However, we do see the DPs as an institution that could be led by any Ugandan human beings who qualifies to be its leader, but not tribal novices like the Mw. Ssemakulas etc, etc. I think, we all agree and know that OBOTE is a human being, but he can't at the same time be a UPC, itself that is a known political institution as well. I think a political institution is led by human beings and as such it has human dynamicism to lead from phase to other phase and as such I feel UPC will cross that bridge where the likes of Ssemakulas will never hate this party. Bye Ocaya p'Ocure ----- Original Message ----- From: Oryema Johnson To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 7:24 PM Subject: RE: [FedsNet] UPC on Federalism Semakula, you write: Unfortunately, while DP undergoes its re-birth, the UPC are lurching onto the very ideas we have long advocated, especially federalism based on economically viable units/states -- ideas that the UPC have in the past worked tirelessly to destroy, hinder and/or otherwise obsfucate. May I ask, why is it a problem if one of the oldest political parties in Uganda (UPC) is now embracing federalism as a way to go? Why is it a problem if parties have recognized their mistakes and wish to do things differently from the past? Finally, the excuses being made to excuse the inexcusable seem to contradict one another. There seems to be a persistent effort to excuse Museveni from all the crimes committed in Luweero and yet he was the one who started the whole affair. UPC is a political party with some individuals who have made mistakes that have cost lives, destroyed properties etc, but should the whole party be condemned to death. If that is the case would you include people such as Musazi, Binaisa whom so far you have not put in the same blaming code as you put Obote, Okello etc who are all UPC members....Do you blame and hate Obote and UPC because of the 1966 crisis, or because he is a Lango and a northern Ugandan and therefore UPC has no place in Buganda? WBK has urged us not to be carried away by political correctness, therefore I am asking these questions bluntly and I would expect no beating corners when you are answering them ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Protect your PC - Click here for McAfee.com VirusScan Online ____________________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FedsNet/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I'dn't trust the UPC further than I can throw them -- which is not very far; nor give their lies any currency. Unfortunately, while DP undergoes its re-birth, the UPC are lurching onto the very ideas we have long advocated, especially federalism based on economically viable units/states -- ideas that the UPC have in the past worked tirelessly to destroy, hinder and/or otherwise obsfucate. It is encumbate (sp) upon all of us to keep remindind Ugandans, especially the UB40s, on UPC's well-documented role in causing chaos in Uganda on two separate occassions: Obote I and Obote II. UPC is our enemy, nor matter how they package themselves. Remember Naakulabye! Remember the infamous killing fields of 'Luweero Triangle'! Remember 'Panda Gari'! Remember 1966!, etc, etc. Never, never again! Ssekawuka kaali kakulumye ... ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Joseph Senyonjo" Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [FedsNet] UPC on Federalism Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2004 00:26:28 +0000 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Stay informed on Election 2004 and the race to Super Tuesday. ____________________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ --Party believes Buganda Kingdom should be granted federal status By Geresom Musamali THE Uganda People's Congress (UPC) yesterday expressed support for a more empowered Kabaka. "Our position has shifted from that of 1967 back to 1962, with a slight difference. We now have an executive president and so we cannot have an executive Kabaka as well. "But we think a federal state of Buganda, with powers to raise funds, should be created," UPC presidential policy commission (PPC) chairman Dr. James Rwanyarare said. He was addressing the weekly press briefing. The Kabaka's absolute powers were first reduced in the 1900 Buganda Agreement and further cut back in 1955. In 1967, the first UPC government led by Dr. Apollo Milton Obote abolished the kingdom. The Movement, however, reinstated only the cultural aspects of the kingdom in 1993. Kabaka Ronald Muwenda Mutebi on Saturday decried his powerlessnes s, saying he could not mobilise his people for development because of the restriction to cultural functions only. Rwanyarare said UPC was against the fragmentation of Uganda into unsustainable local government units that were even unable to raise their own revenue. He said the party supported the creation of viable federal units. Dr. Kilama Moro, a member of the PPC, later told The New Vision that UPC was interested in a federal arrangement that involved the whole of Uganda, unlike in 1962 where Buganda held a special federal status in the country. Ends Published on: Thursday, 19th February, 2004 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get fast, reliable access with MSN 9 Dial-up. Click here for Special Offer! ____________________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ WBK, You are very amusing!! >From: "WB Kyijomanyi" >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: [FedsNet] Time for Acholis to Roll up Their Sleeves and Work >Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 19:33:54 +0000 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. ____________________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mr. Oryema: With all due respect, what is divide and rule? Northern Uganda divided itself and did so in a very brutal way. The genie is out of the bottle and forget the colonial red herring about divide and rule. You have a vision-I still assume of a federal vision where Northern is one united entity. Fair enough. We have been realistic and pragmatic to accept the obvious that there will never be, I repeat never will be, unity in Northern Uganda for generations. The good news is that Dr. Kapa and you have your vision: it may have takers, and we also have presented an alternative vision, which certainly has takers in the region. I say let us go to the people with the two visions and they will decide/choose whether they want a federal Uganda where Northern is one or a federal Uganda where the North is divided into 4 different states, that is, the vision of one or four states. I must tell you that I li ke our chances better. I say bring it on. Did you read the letter written by Mr. Ayoo that was posted on Fedsnet on the killings in Lira? The author was blunt: the killers were not Kony's LRA bandits but Bamuzze's band of killers camped in some place. In other words, the killers were from West Nile (this is where Bamuzze's fighters are from and are based). He was saying that it is the people from West Nile, perhaps Arua and not Kony's murderous gang who are now killing the people of Lango. Why do you think Mr. Ayoo was so sure about his claims? Why do you think he went to great pains to pin the massacres on Bamuzze's forces? I have said so and I will say it again: Dr. Kapa and you are suffering from too much political correctness. You refuse to see the obvious for fear of being seen as dividing Northern or its people. You do not need to be so politically correct. The history is there. The record speaks for itself. The unity in Northern Uganda of pre independence Uganda is no more, gone for good. That may be sad, but you know what, peace and stability could rise from the ashes of that disunity. In our view, the best way forward is to create 4 federal states. Let it go. Dr. Kapa has written eloquently about the characterization presumably of the North and its people by people from the South. It turns out that "ethnofunctionalism" the notion that the people from the North and to some extent the North East were naturally martial, and thus the only one fit for the military was not only peddled by colonials. It was still being argued after independence long after the colonials had left. Listen to H. Makmot "some sections of the population just cannot fight.even if they are soldiers" (H. Makmot in Republic of Uganda, 1966, National Consultative Council Debates. Vol. 4, p.755, Government Printer Entebbe). H. Makmot was perpetuating the colonial myth that "southerners" were too short for [military/police] service. Makmot was obviously very proud of the colonial labels and too happy to perpetuate the myth. I noticed something on this list, most people from the South or so called Southerners are scared to death to refute such nonsense for fear of offending some members. I have no time for that kind of political correctness. Uganda is bleeding because of too much political correctness. Sometimes, we need the "soft intolerance" to get ideas clear. It may of course hurt but so be it. I remember telling off some big shots at The Monitor and their reaction was shift. My articles no matter what will never see the light in their pages. I still send letters to test them fully aware that my letters will be discarded. But am not so worried. That is the price one must pay ironically for freedom of speech. I applaud Dr. Kapa and you for engaging on this issue. Dr. Kapa wrote so eloquently about the need to put to good use "Northern labor" within the North. That is commendable and I believe federalism is the best way forward. I am not the type who believes that the good things are only in Kampala. That is the unitary mentality where folks talk about their great days in Kitante, Nakasero and Kololo as if that cannot be replicated elsewhere. We need to level with ourselves and stop believing in utopia. To believe that Northern Uganda can or will suddenly get along as one federal unity is to indulge in some fantasy. It won't happen. As a matter of fact, nothing will kill whatever appetite there is for federalism than pushing Northern as one federal unity. There is simply no appetite for such a move in the majority of the districts of the region. The 'intra' suspicion and anger is too much. Actually, the only reason one can push Northern to stay as one unity is because they want the whole federal push to fail in favor of the status quo. Would you be comfortable with such an eventuality? The people of Northern Uganda just like their sisters and brothers elsewhere will see through that and will reject the one federal state model in the North. Given a choice between Dr. Kapa and your one unit federal vision and our 4 states federal vision, there is contest. Bring it on because we have people from the North who have embraced our vision as the best way forward. Let us go to the people and see which vision will win the day. You wondered about lack of new entrants on Fedsnet. That is not an issue and I will tell you why. This is a serious list. The majority of Ugandans, sad to say, but is the truth, prefer cheap talk. That is why Fedsnet is not Ugandanet where every Tom, Mary, name it find solace and it is better that way. Simply put, Fedsnet is not and was not meant for the intellectually lazy and disingenuous Ugandans out there. That is for Ugandanet where Ugandans are just too happy to chip away at each other. Question: what other list in such a short time has ever produced a document/roadmap comparable to what Mr. Senyonjo put together? If there aren't any, why is that the case? For the record, I briefly joined Ugandanet and left shortly thereafter and won't be back anytime soon. Fedsnet is not for everybody just as Ugandanet is not for me although they are both open forums. I belong to a few lists, although I may check out UNNANET in the near future. We have never worried about new entrants. People come and go. Unlike the rest, this is a moderated list albeit in a liberal way. We have done very well by any standard. And in the coming months we have to figure out where we go from here. We have a good product and it may be time to take it to the people in Uganda to get their feedback on the Federal question. Some of us are believers in what Mead said: a few committed and dedicated individuals can make a difference. And I am personally grateful to this list especially Mr. Kibuka the founder and the few brave souls especially the Federal advocates who have been tenacious over the years. We may not always have agreed with each other, but we did our best to debate the Federal question. When not if anymore, Ugandans wake up to take about Federalism, we will be there, ready to make a small albeit well informed contribution. We dared to dream, why not? It has been a pleasure to be part of this debate, but let us move on. Kyijomanyi ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* ____________________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ WBK: We are not proud of the northern history, but we can no longer afford to dwell on this shameful past for ever and as an individual I reject outright the proposition to re-divide the region along the line put forward in the fed doc. This is a rebuilding of our colonial past of divide and rule. Since independence, we have accepted the region as a northern part of Uganda and we will make every possible effort to keep it as a block and will work effortlessly to identify the possible dynamics that has inhibited it being seen as one. The problem of Uganda is not the division among northern tribes, but the failure of Uganda as a whole to ursher in democracy. A question asked over and over again in the context of the political culture in Uganda is: Why has democracy failed to find roots in Uganda....During the last 41 years of existence Uganda has not found a workable democratic system. That is the question you should be dealing with, not how divided the north is..... As for any Ugandan becoming an expert on the north, we have no problem with that. After all there are always experts in this and that. I mean you have people such as Colin Turnbull who have studied and became an expert on the Ik a people of the higher mountains of Uganda...Why not you on the Kakwas or Lugbara. Margaret Mead spent years in the Samoan Islands studying the Samoans...Why not you spending months in Loropi studying the Madis Oryema >From: "WB Kyijomanyi" >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: [FedsNet] Time for Acholis to Roll up Their Sleeves and Work >Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 18:37:33 +0000 > ><< message3.txt >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* ____________________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mr. Kapa: We are for decentralized and NOT unitary Federalism whatever that is. We have made that clear. Unlike you, I do not think that ethnicity is a bad word per se. I know of course the double speak of the African intellectuals who denounce ethnicity/tribalism during the day or whenever it suits them but rely on it, actually invoke it for political purposes. When is ethnicity bad and when is it good? When does it have political values and when is it a liability? I don't have to belabor the obvious, but you know cases in Uganda when ethnicity meant everything, in fact it has been the only criteria for certain positions both in the past and the present. Consider, the military leadership today and in the past, and tell us whether you are satisfied that the leaders were there by virtue of merit or ethnicity (read loyalty). When YKM is accused of fast tracking his son, he is following a precedent. When one of the most junior justices is fast tracked from the high Court to the Constitutional Court and then to be acting justice of the Supreme Court, do you think she is the brightest or the most competent? For starters, here I am talking about Lady Justice Constance Byamugisha Kategaya (sister to Mr. Kategaya and wife to Dr. Joseph Byamugisha, YKM's personal lawyer and now Kategaya's senior partner). Of all the justices, she has been fast tracked within a period of less than 2 years from High Court to Supreme Court. There are other justices who have served in both the High Court and Constitutional Court longest, but they were bypassed. Me thinks it is obvious why. And she is not there to balance ethnicity/regional or gender. There are senior women Justices toiling away in the Constitutional Court and High Court, but they do not come from Ankore/Kigezi. The Supreme Court is already full of Westerners (yes, Kanyeihamba, Mulenga, Karokora and now Byamugisha), two Justices from 'Eastern' Uganda (Odoki and Tsekoko and one from 'Northern' (Oder). As currently constituted (7 Justices) there is no Justice hailing from Buganda on the Supreme Court. Does anyone believe that Justice Byamugisha would have been fast tracked for anything else? Her brother may have fallen out with YKM, but her husband continues to do the heavy lifting for YKM. I digress here to show how ethnicity is well and alive in Uganda. Now if YKM were to be asked how come the most junior justice was elevated to the top Court albeit in an acting capacity, she will say with a straight face that ethnicity was not an issue! He may even say gender but there are more senior women justices than her in both the High Court and Constitutional Court. Now back to federalism and the Northern question (assuming there is such a question). You write "I personally believe that the North cast as a more cohesive political, economic and cultural unit is a better entity to itself, to Uganda, to East Africa and to Africa than when it is separated into Acholi, Lango, Karamoja". Fair enough IF only it was possible and No, am not trying to divide the North, for it is already hopelessly divided. Question: why would the Acholi, Langi, and West Nile (Karamojongs are on the periphery) 'quit' Uganda to come together in such an entity given the obvious tensions (you do acknowledge the intra-massacres)? Are you saying that the other "other" parts of Uganda, supposedly (the South) has all along been the problem between the regional unity of the "North'? Put bluntly, if these groups could not unite or tolerate one another in a larger Uganda; how can you expect them to get along simply because they are lumped together again? And is not that the 'unitary federalism' you ridicule? I strongly believe that if the people of Acholi, Lango, West Nile and Karamoja were to be told that the kind of federalism we have in mind means lumping them together in one federal state; federalism would be a non-starter. Why again is federalism being put forward as an alternative anyways? Mr. Kapa, I know how politically incorrect it is viewed by some for me to comment on this, but am not the type to be too politically correct. I have seen what too much political correctness can do and has done here. Rook1 talked about the bonds that tie us together as a people. But the Budos, Kisubis, Layibis, Mwiris, Gayazas, Namagungas, Ntares, Nyapeas have all along been there and to the best of my recollection have been egalitarian in their admission policies. Yet we hardly get along. Have the schools failed our country? What happened in between? Let the people of Acholi, Lango, West Nile (they will figure out how to manage their affairs) and Karamoja go. Let the nostalgia about 'Northern' go. Let the people manage their affairs for once so we can see the change in attitude. Let us be realistic, pragmatic instead of dealing in utopia. Kyijomanyi ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* ____________________________________________________________________________________Ms. Margret (Margaret?):
Unless you started reading this forum yesterday, you'd know that I am a vocal critic of Museveni/Movement, especially with regard to the prosecution of the war in the North -- even thogh it si now quite clear that the most of the atrocoties in that war are committed by Kony and his followers.
That aside, also single out Obote and the UPC as a danger to peace in Uganda. I gave particular incidents that clearly show just how bloodthirsty that abominable beast, Obote, really is. If you can refute any of what I stated I am all ears.
The UPC should never again be allowed to con Ugandans into giving them power ever. We must never forget what the UPC did to Uganda on two separate occassions -- proof of what they are.
The litanny of their their crimesis endless, but well-documented. It includes detaining their own members without trial, ceaseless state of emergence in Buganda, attacking the Kingdom of Buganda and eventually summarily abolishing all kingdoms in Uganda, brutal killings at Nakulabye, horrific massacre for students of St. Mary's Kisubi, abolition of Uganda's federal form governance in favor of a unitary one, massacres in the so-called Luweero-Trangle (there are video records of the aftermath of their rampage, Red-Cross reports -- some in my possession, but widely distributed), panda gari, etc. etc. speaks for itself, clearly and loudly: they are a deadly snake!
Some of their brutality was recorded in the world press in the period around 1980-1985. Their motives, and methods have been chronicled by former insiders, especally Grace Ibingira in his book African Upheavals Since Independence, which I have excerpted on Ugandanet and are willing to provide you those excerpts. There are also numerous other sources, like Transition magazine, Uganda Argus newspaper (my colleagues and I have access to it), to mention but a few. It was Obote who once threatened to turn the entire West Nile District into a National Park -- presumably after wiping out its human population!
Is this a party that a sane person would willingly return to power?
(Ibingira was Seretary General of the UPC, its Attorney General, and a senior Minister; whom Obote imprisoned without trial -- until Idi Amin, another Obote protege sprung him from detention.)
The UPC are up to no good, and their blood-drenched history abundantly proves it.
If the UPC ever hood-wink us into allowing a UPC III, not even trees would be left standing in Uganda and river Nile would turn red with our blood!
Ssemakula
Take off on a romantic weekend or a family adventure to these great U.S. locations.-------------------------------------------- This service is hosted on the Infocom network http://www.infocom.co.ug
--- End Message ---
