The "real thinkers" on this or any other list always had/have the
choice to dialogue or not. In this case they have taken another path.
They've created an environment in which people with whom they
disagree can be silenced. Since then, there's been nothing of
interest on either list. There have been announcements for "meet ups"
for events in which I have no interest and offers for 5-gallon
buckets. Sign me up for some gripping neighborhood discussion--
wherever that might be these days.
As far as I'm concerned, disagreement and contention are an integral
part of a "full-service" and diverse listserv. In fact I find it
weird that you'd use the term to describe a forum in which exclusion
was celebrated in posts by it's creator on the very first day of its
existence. In my opinion, it's the same as believing the "clean and
safe" fantasy that UCD is hawking to promote retail shopping and real
estate sales.
I suppose I could look at UCNeighbors as a sort of 12-step program
for listmembers who just couldn't stop themselves from responding to
the so-called trolls--making the list even more contentious--and
trying to do spin control on every negative word about Penn, UCD,
FOCP, etc. People, places and things, as they say. I'm looking
forward to the "make amends" part.
I've made my feelings clear in the past about in-person group
discussions where loudmouths rule so I'm hoping you're not referring
to me when you mention those who are uncomfortable meeting others in
person. (You seem to be under the impression that I am shy. I'm not.
I just don't feel an overwhelming urge to join, be in charge, or
always be "right." I also believe that you *can* have enough or too
many friends.) When I've been invited to neighborhood stuff with no
agenda--and which didn't involve getting schnockered before some
event--I've attended some and I've had fun. In fact, I was told after
one of them that I was visibly snubbed by an FOCP board member.
Imagine that. If I had known he ws a listmember I would certainly
have introduced myself but he took advantage of his anonymity and
acted like a grade-schooler. Too bad but, in my experience, typical.
Frankus
Sleek. Edgy. Infinitely flexible.
On Sep 9, 2007, at 09:56 PM, Anthony West wrote:
Frank wrote:
Your point about Mr. Brown and the All-Stars isn't working. I think
it's tine to give it up. Kyle was a contributing member of this list.
And he quit, for reasons he clearly stated. The trolls got to be
too much for him, and for many, many others. Perhaps they shouldn't
have reacted that way; but they did. They no longer want this crap
in their inboxes and have created a full-service neighborhood
listserv that is free of it. You and I feel differently about this.
But I don't see anything immoral about wanting to scan a
neighborhood forum that is free of obvious, unrelenting malice.
Please. This kind of disingenuousness and arrogance is, to me, much
worse than any of the obvious listserv trolling that you and other
sweetbarkingcheesers find so offensive.
I said nothing abut controversy. I mentioned criticism. I
specifically meant criticism from neighbors and "internet friends"
on this list which can sting and would not affect book sales even a
little.
I haven't noticed any aversion to criticism in Kyle has ever
written or said. Kyle is a pretty feisty guy who enjoys jousting.
He is hardly thin-skinned. That's why he toughed it out on UC-list
for years. Neither is Ross thin-skinned. They both hold the nasty,
uncreative trolls of UC-list in well-deserved contempt.
I might mention, both Kyle and Ross are comfortable meeting their
neighbors in the flesh. They are not devotees of faceless internet
defamation.
I also didn't mention a conspiracy, unless you can call one person
starting a mailing list a conspiracy.
Now, please stop putting words in my mouth/fingers.
But others constantly mention a conspiracy. Indeed, the idea that
"University City" is nothing more than a giant marketing conspiracy
by the University of Pennsylvania -- and that everything Penn wants
is intrinsically evil, except when it's cutting your paycheck -- is
the only "intellectual" topic I read on UC-list these days. This is
a lazy and shallow approach, favored largely by second-raters and
fools. Most of the real thinkers no longer post on UC-list, because
they are tired of dialoguing with these wankers. And why should they?
A pity, I think. But then, everything moves along over the course
of time.
-- Tony West
