Dave said: >> I can't believe you called me pessimistic! I find this post to very pessimistic basically saying it's a toy, don't try to make it mainstream, give up now cos it will never happen! <<
Please don't put words in my mouth. I didn't call you pessimistic, and I didn't say Rev was a toy. I'm making Rev a fundamental part of my business - of course I don't think it's a toy.
I said you cannot expect Rev to have the kind of mindshare or widespread use of Javascript,Perl or even Applescript. Applescript is right there on the desktop as a development tool on millions of Macs. You can buy umpteen books on it on Amazon, and several video training cds also on Amazon; you can get training courses by many different providers in different continents (including Apple itself). Many other Mac products expose Applescript functionality, serving to further increase awareness of it. Yet Applescript itself is hardly mainstream. A search on Jobserve for jobs requiring particular languages results in this: applescript = 2,ruby = 34, php = 426, perl = 676 javascript = 1109, visual basic = 1563, java = 3657.
Runrev have done a really good job of making it clearer to new users how powerful Rev is, and have done a better job componentizing it and marketing it than Metacard Corp. did. But as things stand Rev is a niche product. Its use and popularity are apparently expanding slowly (e.g. the conferences, the book that Lynn mentioned), but I've been standing on the sidelines for 4 years, and I haven't seen any huge groundswell like that which launched Ruby to fame via Ruby on Rails. I know that Andre has been looking into doing something similar for Rev (you are a one-man marvel, Andre), but even if he achieved that, it doesn't mean that it would launch Rev into the spotlight. There are plenty of systems to rival RoR built in Python, PHP and even Java, but they aren't getting 1% of the publicity that RoR is getting. Some of that is just the eclipsing effect of hype and fashionability. But even RoR is hardly considered a mainstream tool (look at how few vacancies there are listed above compared to e.g. PHP).
Given those figures, how do you propose within 20 years to make Rev into a mainstream language (say, on the level of Perl, to take something that is not at either end of that list of vacancies)? Metacard was around for over a decade before it was bought by Runrev, and garnered several awards and commendations from the industry press. But it was still widely unknown. Runrev are doing a better job at making Rev affordable and at demonstrating what can be done with it.
There are some very clever xTalk programmers on this list (I include you and Xavier... well, most of the regular posters - excluding me, of course). For those who want Rev to have a higher profile, I hope 1 day to see some amazing product or technique that will give us all a sense of smugness. I know that the product I am working on is quite unique and extremely powerful, but for commercial reasons the most I am prepared to do for the forseeable future is to fulfill my "made with" obligations to Runrev and to keep on buying my update licenses. I've spent several years investigating and learning the options available to me in order to come up with a unique value proposition. Rev is an intrinsic part of it, but my solution is designed such that I could swap out presentation layers if the need arose.
Bernard _______________________________________________ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
