Rakesh you are too good to be true.
Who are you? where do you come from?
It's the first time on this list that someone knows so much about
programming (or discuss about it)
I am new to python, but an old c++ programmer.
I have some experience with Assembler, Amiga Intent, Basic, VB, TCL,
Java, Forth, RAPL, some retro console SDK,
Used to be a master at DirectX 8, now recently switched to openGL,
openAL.
All the stuff I did in DirectX8 is now not working anymore. I hate
DirectX.
Agree that openGL is slow in adopting new technologies.
DirectX will be left there when M$ dies at the hand of Android and
other more standard OS.
The future is not desktop, it's cell phone, ebook, whatever pad,
consoles etc.
I did some test with the Cell processor, in an emulator. Read the
complete SDK a while ago.
The Cell is so easy to code for.
I just checked openCL and it's a mess to watch.
I agree, the amateur programmer will be left behind in parallel
processing.
Bugs won't be just memory leak, but process leak or lock.
It's a pleasure to virtually meet you Rakesh
I am stuck with programming, until I finish CombadZ.
3D is now becoming a memory from the past.
I would like to read a small review of Python by you.
And what is your favorite language and why?
What is killing speed on CPU are altering flows conditions : IF
The best 3D algorithm must not have any conditions, just sequence of
math.
The math must replace conditions. And memory bottleneck is still the
biggest problem.
I believe the future of rendering is not polygon, but point cloud.
A lot of simple things. I have seen impressive demos at an expo
recently.
Jean-Sebastien Perron
www.CombadZ.com
On 10-07-20 12:24 PM, Rakesh Malik wrote:
I think a version of Larrabee will be released soon --
though it's not likely to be a graphics chip, it's most likely to be a
mini-supercomputer on a card.
The margins in that arena are much better than the margins in
CPU's right now, so you can bet that Intel's going to go after it with
some gusto.
OpenMCL and DirectX are our best bets for "standardized" API's.
OpenGL will always be playing catchup, and DirectX will always be
leading the way, because Microsoft makes too much money from games to
stop pushing DirectX as much as it can, and OpenGL is a standard that
requires a committee to agree on. The same committee that ensures that
OpenGL is OpenGL also slows it down -- it's the tradeoff for
standardization.
Threading in Python is a joke. I've done it, it's a waste of
effort. The language is suitable only for embarrassingly parallel
applications, and that's it.
C++0x won't be usable by very many people -- especially the
newer programmers. It will be a fine language, but the people using it
will be limited to supercomputer models, games, and the better 3D
animation and rendering software.
There are several modern programming languages that are placing
a strong emphasis on parallel, multi-threaded, distributed, and
functional programming. In "mainstream" programming, applications will
just get buggier and more bloated. In the smaller space of 3D software
and games, we'll see some amazing stuff, probably in the next couple of
years.
They're going to have no choice as far as standards -- there
will be a small number of languages (my guess is OpenMCL + whatever
Microsoft calls theirs) that will end up becoming pervasive, and anyone
who wants to play will have to support them or be kicked to the curb.
Thanks -- I'm trying to get out of programming so that I can do
more with 3D and photography. I've been out of 3D for too long, because
I haven't had the time to keep it up.
-----------------------------
Rakesh Malik
http://www.whitecranephotography.com
http://www.flickr.com/baratheon
On Tue, Jul 20, 2010 at 6:22 AM,
Jean-Sebastien Perron <j...@neuroworld.ws> wrote:
Wow really interesting Rakesh.
Larrabee won't be released soon, if released at all.
I hope you are right, I am eager for theses new features to be open
standard.
As a programmer, it's even difficult to use good old OpenGl/DirectX
mess.
Thankyou for that long response, If you know more tell us.
I will do further reading about the new GPU.
The new c++ standard ( C++0x) that will be revealed the next year, will
support multi threading.
Like Python, most languages are now supporting parallel execution
directly in the language.
OpenGL, DirectX, Larrabee, ATI, Nvidia, Mac, Linux, Win ... They will
never merge to any standard.
I really like your landscape pictures.
On 10-07-20 02:34 AM, Rakesh Malik wrote:
GPU based renderers are most likely the
future.
The Cell isn't it -- it's only somewhat parallel, and it's
not
well-suited to double precision arithmetic. It's a better suited to
rendering than to gaming, but it's definitely nowhere near to being all
that it's cracked up to be.
The latest generation of GPU's from nVidia and AMD/ATI are,
however, exactly what you're describing -- massively parallel, with
extremely fast buses, and with general-purpose computing engines rather
than dedicated hardware to run shaders. The latest nVidia GPU's do
double-precision arithmetic well, which is specifically for
high-performance computing.
The consistency isn't due to the GPU's being GPU's, it's
because
general-purpose GPU's are relatively new, and there aren't any
standards for them yet. It will change, especially with programming
languages for them becoming standardized.
Intel's Larabee processor is specifically geared toward
general-purpose computing -- it's a collection of small, fast
processors with very fast interconnects and it's well-suited to
applications such as rendering.
And lastly... the reason that the industry is being so
conservative about parallelism is that most programmers don't
understand even the simplest issues in parallel programming -- how to
partition and re-assemble data, handle node failures, mutual exclusion,
resource contention, that sort of thing.
----------------------------
Rakesh Malik
http://www.whitecranephotography.com
http://www.flickr.com/baratheon
On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 6:46 PM,
Jean-Sebastien Perron <j...@neuroworld.ws>
wrote:
GPU
based
renderer
are doomed unless there is a open and documented
standard.
Like any hardware-dependent renderer they will fade over time.
It's sad that the the Cell processor was ignored by the industry.
The Cell in the hand of good old programmers (Assembler and c++) not
(scripters) could do so much.
I hate AMD and Intel and Arm and Motorolla,
The secret to faster computing is parallel work.
Like the hundreds of "Blitters" in the old arcade motherboard of the
80's.
Programming in parallel require thinking, and the industry is playing
it safe.
We don't need 4 core we need 32 or 64 and more.
Simple core that only do floating point math vectoring.
Not all purpose crap like intel(int tel) like in integer.
GPU are useless in generating images, no 2 videocard produce the same
result.
What is important is math math math .... Vector and matrix nothing else
And still to this day, only one processor in the world deliver that :
The Cell
If I had the money of Bill Gate, In a year I would completely change
the computer world.
Company are behaving like the petrol industry : holding technology, and
improving slowly to make more money.
I would have thought that buy now we would not need to think about
computing speed.
The solution is so simple : (a really really simple RISC processor *
64) + a lot of memory inside the processor) in a single chip.
A computer in a chip, everything in a chip. No dedicated hardware or
instructions.
Actually not all of the above is true, but mostly true
Jean-Sebastien Perron
www.CombadZ.com
On 10-07-19 04:00 PM, aidan o driscoll wrote:
OR
http://www.refractivesoftware.com/
Octane Render is the world's first GPU based, un-biased, physically
based renderer. €99
Bought this recently on offer - €49. Very nice renderer too. Use it
with Modo!
Plugs for other apps being developed for this also ....
Aidan
On 19 July 2010 20:42, Neil Cooke<ne...@xtra.co.nz>
wrote:
Nice
Archviz
there Arfo!!!
Thanks
Neil Cooke
PS: I dont know enough about renderers to comment and RS does it Ok for
me
... in my ignorance perhaps.
________________________________
From: Arjo Rozendaal<arjo.rozend...@xs4all.nl>
To: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com
Sent: Tue, 20 July, 2010 6:36:03 AM
Subject: RE: Fryrender plugin support
Hi Jason,
I think Realsoft really needs a better render engine. But rendering with
third party plugins would mean some serious changes. Solid objects
won't be
possible, everything will have to be turned into SDS/polygonal objects.
VSL
will be of no use anymore. All the materials will have to be created to
work
with the render engine. I doubt if this is what most Realsoft users
like. I
always liked the special things of Realsoft like the VSL and solid
objects.
I'm afraid the mainstream production market is quite covered by the
other
apps. So I guess Realsoft is more for the users that like the special
options.
However I must admit that these specialties have some severe
limitations. In
terms of production, VSL is far too technical and time consuming to
create
nice materials. Solids have limitations if you want to add bevels,
deform
them or things like that.
But if Vesa and Juha find some solution that could bring the high
quality
rendering to Realsoft without losing VSL and solids it would be very
impressive.
Anyway, I'm even not sure if Fryrender is the best choise. I chose Vray,
which is not an unbiased renderer lik Fry or Maxwell. But it's a lot
faster.
And IMHO it renders very nice images too. But as always there are a lot
of
different opinions when it comes to choosing a render app. And all the
software galeries show the nicest results of their users. Here are some
results of myself:
Two different interior projects I did this year (rendered with Vray):
http://www.xs4all.nl/~joly/show/kantoor.html
and
http://www..xs4all.nl/~joly/show/wrobel.html
Both completely different atmosphere in terms of style. Modern/clean
office;
the other an private flat in Paris.
Arjo.
Van: owner-l...@light.realsoft3d.com
[mailto:owner-l...@light.realsoft3d.com]
Namens
Jason
Saunders
Verzonden: maandag 19 juli 2010 17:03
Aan: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com
Onderwerp: Fryrender plugin support
Hi,
Any votes for development starting on a plug-in for using this render
engine
in Realsoft ?
Seeing as all the other major and not so major 3D apps have it
supported,
makes sense to try and catch up me thinks.
www.randomcontrol.com/fryrender-gallery
Regards
Jason
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