I agree with BJ.
A lawyer friend here (very good lawyer too) also had the same idea that patents make for good
control. I told him the exact same thing that BJ just mentioned. Patents make for clear
concessions (for the patent holder).
But then, lawyers do make a living suing for patent infringements. Just that for business folks,
it's too much angst and trouble to file a suit that doesn't translate to constructive business
endeavor (like making new products, services).
It's about how fast we can move ahead, not about how much we can prevent others
from moving ahead.
Jonathon
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Sage advice all!
-----Original Message-----
From: BJ Freeman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 7:47 PM
To: user@ofbiz.apache.org
Subject: Re: shipments made for out of stock items
Learned a valuable lesson from my Granddad and dad
we have a mfgr company that was special niche
for years we had competitors that tried to get market share
but we were the leader in the field.
so when I went to work for them, I was very concerned about the patents.
they said.
patents only keep them from stopping us from making it.
but our innovation is what keeps up in front.
so from my perspective, holding on to rights only protects me from
someone saying I don't have the right to do it.
with apache I don't worry about that.
and my innovation keeps me ahead.
what I share here is something I did months ago, but just getting around
to adding it to ofbiz
[EMAIL PROTECTED] sent the following on 10/24/2007 7:19 PM:
BJ
You're way to easy on your customers. Giving us hard-axxxs a bad name. I
always keep the rights to the code I write unless it's a salaried long
term
job.
Skip
-----Original Message-----
From: BJ Freeman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 5:44 PM
To: user@ofbiz.apache.org
Subject: Re: shipments made for out of stock items
the online service is fee based. sorry.
however what I am proposing here would be a big boone to us all
and that, after I get the supplier emails running, is my next task, if I
am allowed
Skip sent the following on 10/24/2007 5:36 PM:
Wanna share the code?
-----Original Message-----
From: BJ Freeman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 5:06 PM
To: user@ofbiz.apache.org
Subject: Re: shipments made for out of stock items
skip I have implemented similar in the service I provide on line for
webstores.
been doing it since 1998.
see my other email.
Skip sent the following on 10/24/2007 5:04 PM:
BJ
This logic gets very complicated very quickly. You can throw into the
mix
two dropship suppliers with different prices and shipping times. Maybe
the
customer wants one and it comes in a box of 10. Its even more
complicated
if you require a 35% margin and getting that margin requires you to
order
a
hundred. It gets even more complicated still if....
The application I am converting to Ofbiz took me two years to get right
in
this area ( at least right from the clients perspective). Two years of
tweeking that it is. I ended up with three scenerios, case 1 where I
knew
for sure what to do. Case 2 where I was pretty sure what to do, and
case
three where I didn't have a clue.
I ended up doing case 1 without operator intervention, and presenting 2
separate lists of the last 2 cases to a human operator to approve. This
has
worked in 21 installations of this application for over 15 years now and
is
one of the few things I don't get complaints about or requests for
changes.
Skip
-----Original Message-----
From: BJ Freeman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 4:36 PM
To: user@ofbiz.apache.org
Subject: Re: shipments made for out of stock items
Ok lets take it from the item issuance.
here is the scenario.
one product
two suppliers
one used to refill local stock
one one to dropship.
so you may have local stock or it may be ordered from the supplier that
refills local stock.
and under certain circumstances the dropshipper is used.
now you may check inventory which means look at any orders pending
and on determining that the delivery date is beyond the ship date to the
customer may opt to send the order to the Dropshipper.
so putting in parms like use local inventory if with in so many days of
shipping date to customer
or if available use dropship under any circumstance to satisfy back
orders.
Not sure if this goes with the product or inventory in a facility
I was thinking of having a place in the product to assign a service that
would best suit the configuration for a client.
this would allow many scenarios with out really changing the programming
of ofbiz.
David E Jones sent the following on 10/24/2007 4:19 PM:
I'm not sure I totally understand what you're looking at BJ...
This may very well make sense as a configuration flag, either for a
ProductStore or for a Facility, so specify whether or not shipping
without inventory in stock is allowed.
The Quick Ship Entire Order service would be affected by this, as would
certain other things. The best place to implement it is probably in the
issue order item to shipment service (the one that creates the
ItemIssuance records). That's what actually takes thing out of stock
(ie
does the stock out).
-David
On Oct 24, 2007, at 5:05 PM, BJ Freeman wrote:
if the inventory supplier is a dropshipper would be the consideration.
since you can have many suppliers for a product, you could have a
supplier you order from for your local supplier and a drop shipper as
well.
this would come under a scenario of determining best cost and delivery
of the product which is part of ERP.
So I don't think a simple flag is the answer.
Skip sent the following on 10/24/2007 3:33 PM:
BJ
No, I have considered only my own needs. However, a property which
determines the behavior satisfies both camps.
Skip
-----Original Message-----
From: BJ Freeman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 1:27 PM
To: user@ofbiz.apache.org
Subject: Re: shipments made for out of stock items
Skip have you consider the sequence for a dropshipper, and some
fulfillment houses.
you don't have their inventory.
Skip sent the following on 10/24/2007 1:09 PM:
Dave
I agree that this is a big hole/bug. On the other hand, there are
folks
who
don't mind/prefer the sloppiness (I have a customer just like
that). So,
perhaps we could use a property to define the behavior, like:
ilikesloppybookkeeping=true/false (tongue in cheek)
However, I would be happy to collaborate to get this done. I want
requirements and automatic backorders issued for out of stock etc
for
quick
ship. I was just about to start work on this. We could modify the
existing
service to look for a property and if it exists, do the better
bookkeeping
/
automatic ordering.
This is a hole for me because if my customer has a customer at the
counter
and is selling him some stuff and part of it is on back order, he
has to
exit out of the sales order screen and go to the shipping screen to
get it
all done right. It's a pain and will happen 10 times a day for him.
Fixing
the quickship will take care of it.
Maybe with the configurable property, the muckity-mucks won't be so
reluctant to accept it.
Skip
-----Original Message-----
From: David E Jones [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, October 24, 2007 12:24 PM
To: user@ofbiz.apache.org
Subject: Re: shipments made for out of stock items
On Oct 24, 2007, at 6:41 AM, Dave Tenerowicz wrote:
The more I think about this, it seems inappropriate for an ERP
system to allow this. Why would the quick ship service allow a user
to charge a customers credit card and "ship" a physical product
that the system "knew" was not available?
For some users the system doesn't know everything...
Before charging the card, the sales person would want to confirm
that the goods were actually available. Once this was confirmed, it
would take a facility worker 30 seconds to adjust the inventory,
leaving an audit trail etc.
Yes, but not everyone wants to use it this way.
To me this seems like a JIRA issue, which should be fixed.
I'll submit the issue and we'll submit a fix.
It will most likely be rejected.
-David
Dave Tenerowicz wrote:
Thank you!
David E Jones wrote:
Well, there ya go!
The quick ship order stuff doesn't check stock levels...
-David
On Oct 23, 2007, at 3:53 PM, Dave Tenerowicz wrote:
Yes, I should have mentioned that we created a new service to
automatically create shipments. It calls quickShipOrder as part
of it's processing.
-Dave
David E Jones wrote:
What do you mean by "being created"?
There isn't really anything that automatically creates
shipments, unless a human does it through some UI like the
shipment or packing screens (or a service or something was
written to automatically do it somehow).
-David
On Oct 22, 2007, at 3:48 PM, Dave Tenerowicz wrote:
It appears that shipments are being created with out of stock
items in an implementation we are doing. I am guessing this is
due to product store settings, not a code issue.
rev = 545314
check inventory=Y
reserve inventory=Y
require inventory=N
All products are finished goods (no digital or virtual)
Thanks for any help.
--
Dave Tenerowicz
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Office: 303.493.6727
Mobile 303.906.6116
Fax 303.814.8330
Visit us at http://www.salmonllc.com
For ERP Information: http://www.salmonllc.com/Jsp/vanity/
ERP_CRM.jsp?nav=2&NavBarId=ERP_CRMServices
--
Dave Tenerowicz
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Office: 303.493.6727
Mobile 303.906.6116
Fax 303.814.8330
Visit us at http://www.salmonllc.com
For ERP Information: http://www.salmonllc.com/Jsp/vanity/
ERP_CRM.jsp?nav=2&NavBarId=ERP_CRMServices
--
Dave Tenerowicz
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Office: 303.493.6727
Mobile 303.906.6116
Fax 303.814.8330
Visit us at http://www.salmonllc.com
For ERP Information: http://www.salmonllc.com/Jsp/vanity/
ERP_CRM.jsp?nav=2&NavBarId=ERP_CRMServices
